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CornetAnderson
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 24
Location: New York New York
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 Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:15 pm Post subject: Have you ever felt like you really got over on ebay seller? |
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Recently I won a Los Angeles Olds Ambassador cornet on ebay, serial # 39###. It's silver plated and has the gold washed bell. I am one of those LA olds ambassador cornet nuts and I probably would have payed more for it than the average person. Anyway, the guy listed the horn as a 1960's vintage horn, but I knew that it wasn't because of the serial number. When the horn arrived, I was blown away by its condition. Besides the tarnish, a few minor dings, and the need for a good cleaning, the horn was in very good condition. The silver plating was 100% and All the slides pulled with ease and the valves were slicker than eel snot. I don't like to beat a seller up too bad on a horn, because I know what it is like to let something go for less than it is worth. If the seller was more detailed with his ad and knew more about the instrument. He probably would have more money in his pocket.
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Trumpets are nice. Cornets are sweet
Getzen 3850
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jiarby
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1188
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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It happens more often on craigslist.. a $125 Olds trumpet that ended up swing a Mendez. A Silver Yamaha for $125 that was a Shew. A great Connstellation 38b that the seller listed without writing the word "trumpet".. plus he spelled both "Conn" and "Connstellation" incorrectly.
I don't feel badly about it at all. They listed them for what they wanted. Trumpet arbitrage has financed all my horn purchases. |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6193
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jiarby wrote: | It happens more often on craigslist.. a $125 Olds trumpet that ended up swing a Mendez. A Silver Yamaha for $125 that was a Shew. A great Connstellation 38b that the seller listed without writing the word "trumpet".. plus he spelled both "Conn" and "Connstellation" incorrectly.
I don't feel badly about it at all. They listed them for what they wanted. Trumpet arbitrage has financed all my horn purchases. |
Have you ever wondered about the ownership history of that Shew? |
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ConnArtist
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 2833
Location: La-la Land (corner of 13th and 13th)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| etc-etc wrote: | | jiarby wrote: | It happens more often on craigslist.. a $125 Olds trumpet that ended up swing a Mendez. A Silver Yamaha for $125 that was a Shew. A great Connstellation 38b that the seller listed without writing the word "trumpet".. plus he spelled both "Conn" and "Connstellation" incorrectly.
I don't feel badly about it at all. They listed them for what they wanted. Trumpet arbitrage has financed all my horn purchases. |
Have you ever wondered about the ownership history of that Shew? |
Good point. That's kinda why I started up this thread a little while ago...
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"Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn  )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML |
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jiarby
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1188
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: | | Have you ever wondered about the ownership history of that Shew? |
No, I bought it from a family... kid quit playing in high school 7-8 years ago and trying to raise money to buy new wheels for his hot rod. Probably never even knew what it was themselves. To them it was just the kid's old trumpet. |
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kenste
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| jiarby wrote: | | Code: | | Have you ever wondered about the ownership history of that Shew? |
No, I bought it from a family... kid quit playing in high school 7-8 years ago and trying to raise money to buy new wheels for his hot rod. Probably never even knew what it was themselves. To them it was just the kid's old trumpet. |
That story doesn't add up. If it was a "family", then they must have all had participation in the horn's initial purchase and were aware of it's value. If it is too good to be true, it usually is. Sounds like you might have bought some stolen horns, knowingly or not. Either way, be truthful with yourself and stop the rationalizing of what you must sense as something very wrong. |
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oldblow
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 676
Location: Mitchell, Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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People come into possession of objects and instruments in all kinds of ways...death of original owner, abandonment from relationships, and sometimes just dumpster-diving. Also, people sometimes move on with life and get rid of things, even if they paid a premium price, initially. Don't read more into a situation than real evidence warrants.
Many years ago, a young woman walked into my neighborhood bookstore wanting to sell some books her father had collected. She knew nothing about them, and didn't want them. The bookstore owner knew about as much about them as the young woman. They were first edition books by William Faulkner and Ernest Hemingway, in their dust jackets, in fine condition. A line from "Cadillac Jack," by Larry McMurtry pretty much describes it; "Anything can be anywhere."
Most stolen horns are taken because someone has a pretty fair idea of what they are taking, not because they want to risk arrest for $20.
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jiarby
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1188
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If it was a "family", then they must have all had participation in the horn's initial purchase and were aware of it's value. If it is too good to be true, it usually is. Sounds like you might have bought some stolen horns, knowingly or not. Either way, be truthful with yourself and stop the rationalizing of what you must sense as something very wrong. |
Nope... It was a soccer mom and her mid 20's kid. He was working on the sand dune buggy. He hadn't played since the 9th grade. They were in a huge house in Scottsdale. They had his old mouthpieces and was commenting about his cool leather valve guard that he liked back then. It was a legit deal. It was a 6310ZS. The photo was blurry but I recognized the fixed 3rd ring which meant it was not a student model. $125 for him was a new tire for his dune buggy for something he dug out of the closet and hasn't thought about for almost a decade.
It happens. |
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kenste
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| oldblow wrote: | | Many years ago, a young woman walked into my neighborhood bookstore wanting to sell some books her father had collected. She knew nothing about them, and didn't want them. The bookstore owner knew about as much about them as the young woman. They were first edition books by William Faulkner and Ernest Hemingway, in their dust jackets, in fine condition.
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Wrong,wrong, wrong. You're saying a bookstore owner would have as much of an idea of the value of what are obviously rare books than someone off the street ? Stupid. How do you think he got to be a bookstore owner and be able to ascertain the value of all kinds of books going through his store everyday ? That is like saying a music store owner would not know the difference in value of a Bach Strad and a Monette ! Even if they don't know, they google it ! They also look it up on ebay ended auctions and so forth. That is their business ! These guys hold on to every penny that walks through their doors ! Even the pawn shop knuckleheads have figured that out. Do you really think that stupid bs should be forwarded here ?
People, for the most part, either know the value of what they have, or can easily take 5 minutes and get a fairly accurate ball-park. Someone selling a $1500 Yamaha Shew for $125 is fishy. The buyer is also fishy, on several levels. Accepting stolen goods is as bad as taking them in the first place. On another level, if indeed it is not stolen, then the buyer is shifty and shady for taking advantage of an ignorant seller. I can see $500-$600 as finding a deal, but the other thing is being a bit exploitive and predatory. What if it was a poor little old lady, with the only thing of value she had, and selling it to pay bills and buy food. You'd still be cool with giving her $125 for a $1500 horn ? If so, you are a real bottom feeder and shouldn't be bragging about it. |
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jiarby
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 1188
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it was actually an $800 6310 for $125... just saying, maybe that makes me LESS of a bottom feeder? How much above a seller's asking price do I have to pay to avoid your derogatory comments?
So you think someone posts an ad selling something for $125 that it is my responsibility as a buyer to appraise it and then offer them more than their asking price if I think it is undervalued?
The only person bent about this transaction is YOU! They were happy... they got 100% of their asking price, and quick too! I was happy. The kid I sold it to was SUPER happy to get it.
When you go to the grocery store and see a steak marked $3.99 a pound instead of $9.95 do you go up to the cashier and offer to pay more?
It is a seller's job and responsibility to price their personal property at whatever price they want. End of story. I didn't cold call them like a picker offering to buy old musical instruments and then give them a low ball appraisal so I could get it cheap. They placed the ad. They set the price. All I did was show up and give them what they wanted. It's not like I met some meth junkie at a gas station and they rode up on a bicycle and handed me a trumpet with no case.
Sheesh... |
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Matthew Anklan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1085
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kenste wrote: | | oldblow wrote: | | Many years ago, a young woman walked into my neighborhood bookstore wanting to sell some books her father had collected. She knew nothing about them, and didn't want them. The bookstore owner knew about as much about them as the young woman. They were first edition books by William Faulkner and Ernest Hemingway, in their dust jackets, in fine condition.
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Wrong,wrong, wrong. You're saying a bookstore owner would have as much of an idea of the value of what are obviously rare books than someone off the street ? Stupid. How do you think he got to be a bookstore owner and be able to ascertain the value of all kinds of books going through his store everyday ? That is like saying a music store owner would not know the difference in value of a Bach Strad and a Monette ! Even if they don't know, they google it ! They also look it up on ebay ended auctions and so forth. That is their business ! These guys hold on to every penny that walks through their doors ! Even the pawn shop knuckleheads have figured that out. Do you really think that stupid bs should be forwarded here ?
People, for the most part, either know the value of what they have, or can easily take 5 minutes and get a fairly accurate ball-park. Someone selling a $1500 Yamaha Shew for $125 is fishy. The buyer is also fishy, on several levels. Accepting stolen goods is as bad as taking them in the first place. On another level, if indeed it is not stolen, then the buyer is shifty and shady for taking advantage of an ignorant seller. I can see $500-$600 as finding a deal, but the other thing is being a bit exploitive and predatory. What if it was a poor little old lady, with the only thing of value she had, and selling it to pay bills and buy food. You'd still be cool with giving her $125 for a $1500 horn ? If so, you are a real bottom feeder and shouldn't be bragging about it. |
I think you're over reacting.
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Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com
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kenste
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jiarby wrote: | Well, it was actually an $800 6310 for $125... just saying, maybe that makes me LESS of a bottom feeder? How much above a seller's asking price do I have to pay to avoid your derogatory comments?
So you think someone posts an ad selling something for $125 that it is my responsibility as a buyer to appraise it and then offer them more than their asking price if I think it is undervalued?
The only person bent about this transaction is YOU! They were happy... they got 100% of their asking price, and quick too! I was happy. The kid I sold it to was SUPER happy to get it.
When you go to the grocery store and see a steak marked $3.99 a pound instead of $9.95 do you go up to the cashier and offer to pay more?
It is a seller's job and responsibility to price their personal property at whatever price they want. End of story. I didn't cold call them like a picker offering to buy old musical instruments and then give them a low ball appraisal so I could get it cheap. They placed the ad. They set the price. All I did was show up and give them what they wanted. It's not like I met some meth junkie at a gas station and they rode up on a bicycle and handed me a trumpet with no case.
Sheesh... |
So seeing that you figure it's a fair price if they advertised it for that, and it's fair that you paid that price, when you decide to sell it, you'll sell it for that same fair price, right ? Probably not...
Like I said, bottom feeder. |
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gbdeamer
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| kenste wrote: | | jiarby wrote: | Well, it was actually an $800 6310 for $125... just saying, maybe that makes me LESS of a bottom feeder? How much above a seller's asking price do I have to pay to avoid your derogatory comments?
So you think someone posts an ad selling something for $125 that it is my responsibility as a buyer to appraise it and then offer them more than their asking price if I think it is undervalued?
The only person bent about this transaction is YOU! They were happy... they got 100% of their asking price, and quick too! I was happy. The kid I sold it to was SUPER happy to get it.
When you go to the grocery store and see a steak marked $3.99 a pound instead of $9.95 do you go up to the cashier and offer to pay more?
It is a seller's job and responsibility to price their personal property at whatever price they want. End of story. I didn't cold call them like a picker offering to buy old musical instruments and then give them a low ball appraisal so I could get it cheap. They placed the ad. They set the price. All I did was show up and give them what they wanted. It's not like I met some meth junkie at a gas station and they rode up on a bicycle and handed me a trumpet with no case.
Sheesh... |
So seeing that you figure it's a fair price if they advertised it for that, and it's fair that you paid that price, when you decide to sell it, you'll sell it for that same fair price, right ? Probably not...
Like I said, bottom feeder. |
Why are you so angry?
You've been a member here for like a week and everything you post is negative.
I live in northern NJ and there are MANY super-wealthy families around here who do EXACTLY what jiarby describes.
They go through the closets and put things out at yard sales or on craigslist for $100 even though they paid much more. Why? Mailny because they are really rich and just want to quickly get rid of "stuff" to make room for more "stuff".
If you asked them to recall the price they paid for a 10 year-old Shew they'd probably have no idea. If it's less than $5,000 to some people then they can't be bothered to keep track.
For me I remember exactly what I paid for just about everything because if it costs more than $50 I have to save for it.
A former neighbor GAVE me a kid's playset worth about $3,000. I didn't even know him very well. He was redoing his backyard and the playset made it look cluttered. I told him that's he'd probably be able to get about half his money back if he put it up for sale but he said "it wasn't worth the hassle" and either I could have it or he would (with my help) put it out at the curb for the town to get rid of.
Guess I'm a bottom-feeder too because I didn't force the guy to find someone to sell it to.
Cut it out with the hate and name calling. |
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musicalmason1
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 731
Location: Pa
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:49 am Post subject: |
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A few years ago I bought a Chicago benge from a guy for a really cheap price. At the time I bought it, I knew it was a benge, I knew it needed work, and thats about all I knew. The guy who was selling it was asking the same amount of money he paid for it the 50's. I didn't haggle with him, and paid him his asking price. When I got home, after doing some research I realized that I had bought one of the earliest large bore benges on record. I send it to Dr. Valve, had it overhauled. Then I played it for a couple years and eventually sold it. Needles to say, I turned a profit. Anyway, right after I bought the benge I took a lot of heat on these forums. People telling me I was a low life and I ripped off an old man. I took so much heat I stopped posting here for a long time. Fact of the matter was, I didn't rip anybody off. I paid him what he wanted, and I didn't even know what it was when I bought it. Even if I did know, it is the sellers job to do their homework and know what they have. With google and ebay today, it is very easy to value an item. If the seller can't be bothered to look it up, its on them. Thats how I feel about it. Don't worry about people on these forums. Post when you have something to contribute and ignore trolls, they don't matter.
The only way to rip somebody off when buying musical instruments is to misrepresent the condition of an item, or make a deal and never deliver on it. No seller HAS to sell for any price, and no buyer HAS to buy for any price. If you feel you got the better end of the deal, good for you. You didn't force that seller to sell below market value, that was their choice. |
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8336
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| jiarby wrote: | It is a seller's job and responsibility to price their personal property at whatever price they want. End of story. I didn't cold call them like a picker offering to buy old musical instruments and then give them a low ball appraisal so I could get it cheap. They placed the ad. They set the price. All I did was show up and give them what they wanted. It's not like I met some meth junkie at a gas station and they rode up on a bicycle and handed me a trumpet with no case.
Sheesh... |
| kenste wrote: | So seeing that you figure it's a fair price if they advertised it for that, and it's fair that you paid that price, when you decide to sell it, you'll sell it for that same fair price, right ? Probably not...
Like I said, bottom feeder. |
| gbdeamer wrote: | Why are you so angry?
You've been a member here for like a week and everything you post is negative. |
Indeed. I looked at his past posts and I learned that's pretty much all he does. Oh, and that he has bad taste in beer. Bud Platinum? Really?
Lighten up man or take your constant vitriol elsewhere.
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Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
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derekthor
Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 480
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Indeed. I looked at his past posts and I learned that's pretty much all he does. Oh, and that he has bad taste in beer. Bud Platinum? Really?
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There might be a positive correlation between the two... |
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Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9375
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Years ago, I saw a Bach Strad for sale in a junk store for $150. It was tarnished black, the bell flare had a lot of mute pings in it, and the case was beat up. I talked the store owner down to $125 (this was when you could buy a new one for about $800). He was happy and I was happy. I don't know where it came from, but I didn't know where all the other stuff in his store came from, either.
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