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GR mouthpieces: shallow cup + large backbore?



 
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abundrefo
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Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: GR mouthpieces: shallow cup + large backbore? Reply with quote

Hello,

I've been experimenting with two GR mouthpieces right now:
GR 3MX and GR 66M

The 3MX has a medium large cup volume and a #3 backbore
The 66M has a medium cup volume and a #2 backbore

The point is that the 66M feels shallower and tighter than the 3MX, BUT I also felt that with the 3MX it was easy to hit high notes without much struggle.

So I asked myself: Isn't it supposed to work the other way around? Wasn't the 66M supposed to do the "high note job" better?

My guess is that the #3 backbore allows for a freer blow and, therefore, there is room for more air when reaching a high note. But I may be wrong (if this is the case, please correct me!).

My question is:
Are there shallow or medium shallow GR mouthpieces with a #3 backbore? I only found the #3 backbore being offered with "Medium Large" or "Large Semi-V" cups.

I wonder how such a mouthpiece would play.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably on special order.

For me, the feeling of how large a mouthpiece is includes lip intrusion, and while I'm not 100% on the factors that affect lip intrusion, I know that using the same mouthpiece on a different horn changes the lip intrusion and consequently how large the piece feels. For example, a Cass 3X1-28 feels too large on my more open Model 217 Lightweight 400 but just right on my less open Model 228 Lightweight 400.

Tom
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irith
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be the way the rims interact with your face. I had much better luck with their standard rims than the 3 series but everyone is different.

How much have you played small mouthpieces before? It's possible that you just aren't accustomed to the blow of a slightly more "efficient" piece and thus aren't able to take advantage of what it offers you.
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abundrefo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

irith wrote:
How much have you played small mouthpieces before? It's possible that you just aren't accustomed to the blow of a slightly more "efficient" piece and thus aren't able to take advantage of what it offers you.


That may be true.
I also own an Al Cass 1-28 and I'm always a bit sharp on lower register and a bit flat on high register. But I like how it plays. I just needed something (like you said) more "efficient" to my own lips.

I really like the feeling of the 3MX rim and my intonation is a tad better with it than it is with the 66M.

The tone I get with the 3MX is lovely but it can be a little too lyrical for some commercial works. That's why I started to consider a shallower mouthpiece but still hoping for the same kind of blow.
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Jerry
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Joined: 20 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: GR mouthpieces: shallow cup + large backbore? Reply with quote

abundrefo wrote:
.... My question is:
Are there shallow or medium shallow GR mouthpieces with a #3 backbore? ....
GR designed some mouthpieces for Carl Fischer. Take a look here: http://www.grmouthpieces.com/fischer.htm and read about the Carl Fisher Jazz model:

    Carl Fischer Signature Jazz Model Mouthpiece:
    - Same rim feel as the Z Model
    This mouthpiece is designed to produce a huge fat sound full of overtones with an optimum amount of trumpet brilliance. This versatile mouthpiece is ideal for all around use.
    - #3 GR Backbore.

Medium small cup volume
Very high alpha angle
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abundrefo
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Joined: 24 Jan 2008
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Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: GR mouthpieces: shallow cup + large backbore? Reply with quote

Jerry wrote:
abundrefo wrote:
.... My question is:
Are there shallow or medium shallow GR mouthpieces with a #3 backbore? ....
GR designed some mouthpieces for Carl Fischer. Take a look here: http://www.grmouthpieces.com/fischer.htm and read about the Carl Fisher Jazz model:

    Carl Fischer Signature Jazz Model Mouthpiece:
    - Same rim feel as the Z Model
    This mouthpiece is designed to produce a huge fat sound full of overtones with an optimum amount of trumpet brilliance. This versatile mouthpiece is ideal for all around use.
    - #3 GR Backbore.

Medium small cup volume
Very high alpha angle


Very nice!
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Yogadidit
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: GR Mothpieces Reply with quote

I play GR 67 series. I was also amazed that I could get high range--actually clearer and more supported with a deeper rather than a shallower piece. I have tried the LX, L, MX, M2, M, M-B, and S-B pieces. I currently play the M2 on my Schilke B6, the M-B on my Yamaha 8310Z and the S-B on my .464 bore Callet Soloist. The M2 takes more air, M-B less and S-B less. I get a fuller sound on the M2 and M-B, so I primarily use those. GR will make whatever you want in a custom piece, but I believe their stock pieces are designed very well, and you should not try to deviate too far from those parameters. I found the M2 and M-B to give me a better sound than the M size piece, and with quicker articulation. The S-B piece gives a more commercial sound, but I can't play it as well. It seems to limit room for my lips to vibrate well.
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Yogadidit
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: GR Mothpieces Reply with quote

I forgot to mention that I play the GR 67MX on my Bach C trumpet, which is rather stuffy. That piece (deeper than I normally play) opens up the horn better than the M2 or M-B. Each horn may require a different piece depending on playing characteristics of that horn. I have done a lot of experimenting, listening and paying attention to resistance.
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abundrefo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a few more days testing the 66M and the 3MX, I noticed the 66M is definitely harder for me when playing, let's say, the C above staff, as a reference. Also, I don't like the 66M rim as much as I like the 3MX rim.

I concluded I just need a shallower 3MX.

If this is not possible, maybe I'll try the Carl Fisher Jazz model.
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jengstrom
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abundrefo wrote:
After a few more days testing the 66M and the 3MX, I noticed the 66M is definitely harder for me when playing, let's say, the C above staff, as a reference. Also, I don't like the 66M rim as much as I like the 3MX rim.

I concluded I just need a shallower 3MX.

If this is not possible, maybe I'll try the Carl Fisher Jazz model.


You may be right about using a shallower 3MX, but I wouldn't draw that conclusion quite yet. Because the two mouthpieces you are comparing have different rims (albeit the same size), the rims could be a factor, maybe a major one. My suggestion would be to try to find a used 3M on eBay and compare that to the others before getting a Carl Fisher, which has yet another rim as well as different cup. The 3M would have the same rim as the 3MX with the cup and backbore of the 66M. You'll figure out quickly which variable is inhibiting the high register on the 66M and which direction you should go if you want to explore further.

BTW, I too prefer the 3 rim over the 66, but I think you and I are in the minority.

-John
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stevecass
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abundrefo! How are ya...

Have you ever tried a 3 series Al Cass?

If you would like to test one out, just ask and I'd be happy to send you one. From what you said about the 1-28, might not be a bad idea.

Steve

(Hi Tom, Nice call! )
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Martin Committee
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Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: GR mouthpieces: shallow cup + large backbore? Reply with quote

Definitely try the Wayne Bergeron GR models WB Classic and WB Studio they sound like they might be a good match for you.


abundrefo wrote:
Hello,

I've been experimenting with two GR mouthpieces right now:
GR 3MX and GR 66M

The 3MX has a medium large cup volume and a #3 backbore
The 66M has a medium cup volume and a #2 backbore

The point is that the 66M feels shallower and tighter than the 3MX, BUT I also felt that with the 3MX it was easy to hit high notes without much struggle.

So I asked myself: Isn't it supposed to work the other way around? Wasn't the 66M supposed to do the "high note job" better?

My guess is that the #3 backbore allows for a freer blow and, therefore, there is room for more air when reaching a high note. But I may be wrong (if this is the case, please correct me!).

My question is:
Are there shallow or medium shallow GR mouthpieces with a #3 backbore? I only found the #3 backbore being offered with "Medium Large" or "Large Semi-V" cups.

I wonder how such a mouthpiece would play.
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