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Trumpet vs flugelhorn



 
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Norseman
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Trumpet vs flugelhorn Reply with quote

Hi!
Since this is my first post here I would like to introduce myself. I'm a newly retired pianoplayer living in Norway. (please excuse my bad english). I have played the piano since I was a kid. I have always wanted to play an instrument that I can take along. (Difficult with a piano ).
Now, with more time, I have the opportunity to learn something new, I bought myself a trumpet (always loved the sound of it). This was 9 months ago and I havn't layed it down since.
I have become a trumpet addict and practice every day.
I got myself a pro teacher and practice with him 2 hours every week.

Since I like to play ballads, hymnes etc. J bought a Flugelhorn to play this stuff and here is my question.
I feel that the Flugelhorn is easier to play on (for a beginner like me anyway).
I hit especially the low notes more easy and with a cleaner sound. I also find that when my chops are tired on the trumpet I can continue on the flugelhorn for quite some time.
Is the flugelhorn more "forgiving"??
Any thoughts or comments ??

Norseman
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it more forgiving? In some ways, maybe so. The timbre is obviously darker than a trumpet, which will sometimes mask imperfections in your tone. In terms of register, at least for me a flugel is considerably more difficult to control in the upper register.

All that being said, as someone new to playing brass I think I would spend most of my time developing technique on trumpet. But if one of my newer students wanted to also play flugelhorn, I would have no problem with that.

Brad361
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oj
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, a flugel is easier to play in the low register!

You can hit a good sounding pedal C on it, not so easy on the trumpet.
If you go into the higher register, (say above G), you will discover that it is harder than trumpet.

The late Derek Watkins played flugel in the normal range and changed to trumpet for high range:

Here is Mac Arthur Park: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOKZ5zSDaAA

Bruce Chidester has a nice blog about flugel vs trumpet. He says:
Quote:
When playing your first note on a flugel, you will probably be amazed at how easily it speaks. The reason for this is that the flugel mouthpiece has a different cup design than the trumpet mouthpiece. Trumpet mouthpieces have a rounded bottom in the cup and a flugel horn mouthpiece is shaped more like a funnel; more similar to the inside of a French horn mouthpiece. The air tends to flow through a flugel horn mouthpiece more easily than a trumpet mouthpiece. In many ways the flugel horn is closer to a French horn than it is to a trumpet.


More here: http://www.thetrumpetblog.com/how-to-play-a-flugel-horn/

Also check out Sergei Nakariakov on his special 4 valve flugel (with a huge bell)

And good luck with both the trumpet & the flugel!
(You are very wise to have a pro teacher)

Ole
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Norseman
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for very interesting comments!
And I totally agree that I should spend most time on the trumpet. I do all my practice on the trumpet. The warm up, flexibility, slurring,scales etc always listening for the good sound. I'm one of those lucky guys that really enjoy practicing.
When I feel like making music I grab my flugelhorn and play something like "Summertime" for instance. I think I perform more musically on the flugelhorn for the time being. Maybe it has something to do with all my practice on the more challenging trumpet. When I switch to the flugelhorn the music comes more easy.
Maybe I will perform more musically on the trumpet some years ahead.

And Happy Easter to you!!!!

Norseman
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the world of trumpet playing! And don't worry about your English - it's better than my Nynorsk and WAY better than my or anybody else around here's Bokmål!

What you are finding about the Flügelhorn compared to the trumpet is normal. Probably the biggest reason for this is the difference in the mouthpieces. The Flügel's deeper mouthpiece favors easier, clearer low notes, while the trumpets shallower more bowl-shaped mouthpiece favors higher notes. Also, because there is more cup volume in that deeper Flügel mouthpiece, when your lips swell a bit from playing a lot, there's still room in the mouthpiece for them.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Shipham_Player
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
Welcome to the world of trumpet playing! And don't worry about your English - it's better than my Nynorsk and WAY better than my or anybody else around here's Bokmål!

What you are finding about the Flügelhorn compared to the trumpet is normal. Probably the biggest reason for this is the difference in the mouthpieces. The Flügel's deeper mouthpiece favors easier, clearer low notes, while the trumpets shallower more bowl-shaped mouthpiece favors higher notes. Also, because there is more cup volume in that deeper Flügel mouthpiece, when your lips swell a bit from playing a lot, there's still room in the mouthpiece for them.

Best wishes,

John Mohan


Spot on John - it's also very easy to over-practice on Flugal as your embouchure doesn't tend to feel as tired as quickly as on Trumpet (although it probably is!).

If you try playing flugal with a trumpet mouthpiece you find you'll get tired very quickly (at least I do) so that supports the mouthpiece theory.
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James B. Quick
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JM:
Quote:
Probably the biggest reason for this is the difference in the mouthpieces.


Well, other than the fact they are two totally different instruments... The trumpet has a cylindrical bore, which means that it starts small, and stays small for most of its length, and then flares at the end. The flugelhorn is conical, meaning that it starts small, and then flares for it's entire length.

jbq
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easier to get an acceptable tone on flugel than it is on trumpet.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all generality I find all the bigger horns more forgiving and the smaller horns, especially the piccolo the most demanding. Perhaps the exception here being the French horn which has a whole range of challenges.
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you practice the trumpet to learn to blow forcefully and develop high range. that helps your playing all around. i find it best to mix trumpet and flugel practice/playing.
..chuck
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Branson
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes!
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
... Also, because there is more cup volume in that deeper Flügel mouthpiece, when your lips swell a bit from playing a lot, there's still room in the mouthpiece for them.


John,
For as long as I have been doubling on trumpet and flugel, I have found that I can easily switch to the flugel at any point in a concert but that switching back to trumpet is problematic. I'll often request that flugel pieces be programed just before an intermission or as the last piece so I'll have the break and can, basically, re-learn my trumpet setting off-stage. (Alternatively, I can make a big thing about tuning the trumpet and at least get a few notes in to sort of kick start my trumpet technique.)

Might the problem with the switch back be related to swelling? Any advice or thoughts?

Thanks.

Tommy T.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When doubling on a flugel, it is easy to find a mouthpiece that works well on the flugel, but messes terribly with your return to the trumpet. The conical bore of the flugel makes it possible to play a beautiful tone in shorter order, but the "doubling" part (moving back and forth from trumpet to flugel and back) messes with us because we select a mouthpiece for the flugel based on what sounds good and feels best during a prolonged performance on the flugelhorn, not what works best when we switch back and forth. I maintain that, if you are buy and using a flugelhorn mostly as a doubling instrument for your trumpet, and that the percentage of flugelhorn playing in any instance is very minimal, you select a flugelhorn mouthpiece based on how it feels when you move back and forth with a trumpet. I have two flugelhorns, and two mouthpieces for each flugelhorn. The first is a mouthpiece I will play for extended flugelhorn use, the second is the one I use when I am doubling.
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
.... I maintain that, if you are buy and using a flugelhorn mostly as a doubling instrument for your trumpet, and that the percentage of flugelhorn playing in any instance is very minimal, you select a flugelhorn mouthpiece based on how it feels when you move back and forth with a trumpet....


Assumming that I play a GR G66** on my WT, what should I look for in a flugel piece in lieu of the Oakes Extreme 0?

(Saara and Ameera no longer sleep in the same bed. Ameera is at Case Western Reserve and Saara is in the Honors College at Miami of Ohio.)

Tommy T.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tommy t. wrote:
dr_trumpet wrote:
.... I maintain that, if you are buy and using a flugelhorn mostly as a doubling instrument for your trumpet, and that the percentage of flugelhorn playing in any instance is very minimal, you select a flugelhorn mouthpiece based on how it feels when you move back and forth with a trumpet....


Assumming that I play a GR G66** on my WT, what should I look for in a flugel piece in lieu of the Oakes Extreme 0?

(Saara and Ameera no longer sleep in the same bed. Ameera is at Case Western Reserve and Saara is in the Honors College at Miami of Ohio.)

Tommy T.


Hi Tommy,

I would look at a smaller diameter, maybe 1 or 2 sizes on the scale of the maker. The depth of the cup can offset the rim size change, and the overall float back and forth between instruments makes a huge difference in the horns far less a drag.

I talk to Pamela on Facebook periodically, and she keeps me up to date. I am feeling very old hearing where the girls are and what they are doing! But, was very proud of the time I worked with Saara. She is a great young woman, and I know you are proud of she and her sisters.

Al
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies to all the other readers for side-tracking here for just a second:

Al,
I am of the opinion that your time teaching Saara was the finest example of beginner level trumpet instruction that I have ever seen, had described to me or saw and heard the result of.

The whole family (4 generations now) is musical and you are the best that we have encountered!

All the rest of you, thanks for your time, we now return you to your regular programming.

Tommy T.
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