Issues with Adams A4

BraeGrimes · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:53 am Post subject: Issues with Adams A4

Hey THers,

I'm going to premise this by saying that I have had incredible customer service and am very satisfied with the team at Adams. Can't applaud that enough.

My question is to everyone who has owned one of these horns - I have an issue with bounce/vibrating when playing on valves 1, 2, or 1+2. Has anyone here had this issue? I know I'm not the only one out of the other 3 A4 owners I know.

When rapidly moving between G and A (in the stave), G and E (First to second line) low d, low C#, any note in the middle and lower register has a blend at some point.

Someone suggested it was my technique, but I've had my teachers play it and they have the same problem, and I don't think it's my technique because when I play any other horn, it's not an issue.

Suggestions? I like the horn, but this issue to me makes it too hard to play on a gig and I'd probably send it back.

Cheers

ertatta · Heavyweight Member Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 856

try porting your valves or call trent austin & see what he thinks.

TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:41 am Post subject:

Brae what are you using for a weight in your mpc setup? Perhaps a beaver blank might help. I know that sounds weird and perhaps you have already tried it?

Let me know if I can be of any help at all.
T
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loweredsixth · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:25 am Post subject:

I'm not sure I understand what you're describing. I DO feel the whole horn vibrate as I play, but that has been a very pleasurable experience for me with this horn. It does not affect my technique in any way.

As Trent said, when I used the Slug * blank Trent made for me the whole horn seemed to balance out much better, and everything just felt more secure.
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wiemelen · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:03 am Post subject:

Nope there is something about the horn that is vibrating in a strange way.
Or at least, vibrating in a way that I have not experienced before on another horn.
A few guys in my section and myself experienced the same thing when we were testing an Adams horn our band wanted to buy.
But it was not on a A4, but another type of Adams (can't remember exactly).
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homebilly · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:11 am Post subject:

hi

when i tried the Adams Committee copy at the NAMM show i experienced the exact same thing that you are describing. i called it bouncy.
i mentioned it in my post about the horns at the NAMM.

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120556&highlight=
towards the bottom.

i found it very hard to play as the notes just seemed to jump around.

ron
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JonathanM · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:20 am Post subject:

I wonder if this is the same bounce that players of the Conn Connstellation occasionally discuss? I think there concern was a bounce associated with the springy valve action of that horn (and a few with similar design). There are threads about that here at TH.
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wvtrumpet · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:54 am Post subject:

I don't experience this at all on my A4. It is a different blow than what I experienced having been a Bach player for over 20 years, but I mean that in a good way! I am not real happy with the fit of a standard mouthpiece in this instrument, (Trent is making me an mp and I am sure that it will have a much better gap and fit the horn as it is suppose too). I have tried a few Kanstul model M mp's and they don't fit the lead pipe the correct way either. I am anxious to report back with my results from Trent's mp.
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TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:00 am Post subject:

I really think mpc weight balance is very, very important in this horn. Others I have in my shop aren't as much so. I'm flying to Holland on Tuesday to work on more instruments at the factory so please email me or PM if anyone has any concerns.

Always happy to help!
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lipshurt · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:51 am Post subject:

Ill weigh in and say this is what happens on the connstellation, and sometimes the committee, and also some tuning bell setups. Also the selmer 80j

Since not ALL constellations exhibit it, it can't be totally a design issue, but on a conn with straight braces, moving the receiver brace, or changing it to a Z brace, or even wedging a wine cork in between the receiver and bell will make it go away. If you take the whole apart and put it back together it also goes away. That points to tension in the body of the horn. That would explain why some 38b etc are fantastic and have no shake in the body. It also explains why something like an 80j can develop the shake over time.....tension creeping in over time.

Does the A4 have straight braces or light braces?
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lipshurt · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:01 am Post subject:

Just looked at the A4 and the bracing looks pretty beefy. Could still be tension though. Changing n mouthpiece weight either heavier or even lighter might affect it. On a conn, heavier is worse.

Does the vibration make itself felt at the lips? Like the vibration shows up in your sound, and you can feel the horn shake when you go between certain valve combinations? Like trilling between E and Eb in the middle register? That's the classic shake point on a conn.

Changing spring tension, washer hardness (felt is better than harder materials) and even changing how hard you hit the valves can make it way better.

I bet you push the valves down pretty hard like Claude Gordon says to do.
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TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:34 am Post subject:

I just played an A4 in the shop with my ultra-light, standard, modern, and slug* blanks.

The horn definitely felt a bit bouncy with the first blank. Not as much with the other three and best with my heaviest blank.

Have you tried the horn with a handguard?

YMMV,
T
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lipshurt · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:44 am Post subject:

Hi Trent
When I played the Adams at the namm show, none of them had a hint of the shake, except the martin-like med bore. I paid really close attention to that especially on the conn copy-like horns, which were stellar. I don't push down very hard compared to some people though.

Right now I'm on a salsa band road trip in a bus to Mexico.... Gonna lose Internet now:)
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BraeGrimes · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:49 pm Post subject:

Hey gang,

To answer your question Trent, I actually use an ACB 665 Slug* that I've been playing it with. I've tried with my ACB MV3C too, same issue. I tried the A6 today and a few other A4's - same problem. Valve ports were very sharp, but finished by a dutch person who knows the Adams guys over here in Australia.

It's good to know others are experiencing this too.

BG

TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject:

MarkZ · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 615

A horn with vibrato built in!
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BraeGrimes · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject:

Hey Trent,

I've tried the following - different felts (even corks), different springs (lighter and harder), full clean and alignment, but no avail.

What's your idea?

BG

TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:08 pm Post subject:

I actually have a bunch of things in mind. I will know more by the end of next week.
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BraeGrimes · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:13 am Post subject:

mbradd · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:23 am Post subject:

I've owned my A4 for almost 2 years and have never experienced this. When you say the notes blend/bounce, what do you mean? Are the valves bouncing when you lift your fingers? I also slam my valves pretty hard. I hope this is just an odd-ball occurance, easily repairable.
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