| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
 Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Heavy Lower Valve Caps |
 |
|
| ghelbig wrote: | I thought I saw one heavy valve bottom (lower cap) on the 3rd valve.
My understanding was that if using only one heavy cap it was to go on the valve/piston that the mouth-pipe connected to? Which on a flugelhorn would be the 1st valve?
Gary. |
In this instance the added mass aides the slotting of the notes played when using the #3 valve.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cornet74 wrote: | Mr. Getzen,
Not to derail your posts--but has Getzen ever considered making a Pro Tenor Horn?Best wishes,
crt1974 |
We have not. That doesn't mean that we never will. Right now we are at the end of developing a great flugel and the beginning of some other projects. We will also, over several years, be evaluating and evolving some of the current line up. There are not enough hours in the day for all of the work that we are aiming to do.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cyber_shake
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 769
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm interested in seeing the finalized 3rd valve trigger with that angled slide tubing and hearing how the testers describe it feeling 'in-hand'.
_________________
Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com
Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thought you all might like to see how we progressed to this point.
The top flugel is our standard 3895. We used this as a starting point for both the build and sound.
The flugel in the middle is a standard 3895 with a full square bent bell. While there was certainly an impact on the "feel" of the horn the sound quality and playability didn't suffer.
The bottom flugel is again a standard 3895 with a square bent bell and a square bent branch. The slotting of the horn tightened up a bit and interestingly enough the tonal quality was marginally richer. We ultimately decided to split the difference between a round and square bend.
I have six more concept horns I can show if there is interest.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cyber_shake wrote: | | I'm interested in seeing the finalized 3rd valve trigger with that angled slide tubing and hearing how the testers describe it feeling 'in-hand'. |
We had a mock trigger built and are currently finalizing one. The trigger mount and grip have as much detail as the rest of the horn. Maybe Jim or Andy could give you their impressions on its comfort.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codyb334
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam R. Getzen wrote: |
I have six more concept horns I can show if there is interest. |
Yes!
_________________
-Cody
1970 Bach 37/7
1988 Yamaha 6340ST
Olds L12 Flugel
GR 67L
Monette Prana BL2 S3 XLT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cyber_shake
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 769
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam R. Getzen wrote: | Thought you all might like to see how we progressed to this point...
... I have six more concept horns I can show if there is interest. |
Of course we are interested!!!! ;-D
_________________
Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com
Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, here you go.
The top flugel is a standard 3895 with a 22 gauge two piece copper bell. While this has been requested many times and we knew it would be popular we felt just offering a new bell just wouldn't do.
The middle flugel is a standard 3895 with a bronze valve section. This was our first experience building valves with this material and we were quite impressed. After testing we found marginal improvements to response, tonal richness and wear.
The bottom flugel was built primarily out of curiosity. "Why not" comes to mind. Unsurprisingly it sounded terrible and played poorly, especially compared to the other prototypes we had just built. It was, however, much more comfortable to hold.
Based on what we learned from the six concept horns we had a very good idea what would and wouldn't work for our final horn. The next three horns are referred to in house as "alpha" builds. I'll post those next.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uglylips
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 777
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes, I'm interested. It looks like there is some difference in the bell flares also. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PW-Factor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Never really thought of going square on a flugel. Kind of a cool look, and if it improves the tone then definitely a good thing.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| uglylips wrote: | | Yes, I'm interested. It looks like there is some difference in the bell flares also. |
Everything was the same except for what I mentioned. We really wanted to test single differences so the flares were the same.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PW-Factor wrote: | | Never really thought of going square on a flugel. Kind of a cool look, and if it improves the tone then definitely a good thing. |
I really liked the look of the square bell/square branch combo. There were some things we could have done to open up the resistance that was gained but ultimately we deemed the design to be too radical looking. We were then further concerned to put that sharp of a bend on a copper bell.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PW-Factor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So maybe the square bend in the "tuning slide" area and then the really big round wrap for the copper bell. I am honestly so sold on this horn already. Looks like everything I was hoping to order from Roy Lawler and thensome.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe
Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cyber_shake
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 769
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PW-Factor wrote: | | Looks like everything I was hoping to order ... and then some. |
Definitely = then some!
Roy made me a TLFL a few years back with a 'multi-step bore'. That really didn't fit me, though it does for some. I've always enjoyed .413 - .433 flugels, so this new Getzen is in 'my zone' and on my radar screen!
_________________
Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com
Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PW-Factor wrote: | | So maybe the square bend in the "tuning slide" area and then the really big round wrap for the copper bell. I am honestly so sold on this horn already. Looks like everything I was hoping to order from Roy Lawler and thensome. |
The production model will have a semi-square bend bell and branch. Alone it doesn't look that different but when you compare it to the round bend it really stands out.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here are the three "alpha" horns. This was the second time we had tried an alternate slide configuration.
The flugel on top has a two piece semi-square yellow bell and a semi-square gold brass branch. The slide configuration is nearly identical to the "beta" model that I will post soon. The valve section is bronze alloy and we removed the brace that ran from the third slide on the valve section to the branch. The bell and branch were also rotated slightly to trim up the profile a bit and better balance the horn. The trim (ballisters, top caps, bottom caps, ferrules etc.) were unchanged at this point. This horn played very well although a bit too bright.
The middle flugel is the same as above but uses gold brass in both the bell and branch. Again, a very strong horn but not the richness and core strength we were aiming for.
The bottom fluegel is also the same except this one has a copper bell and yellow branch. We initially tried a copper bell and gold brass branch but it was too mellow. All that copper, bronze and gold brass dulled the sound a bit too far so we went back to a yellow brass branch. This time we were at about 80% satisfied with the horn
Because we had such a solid foundation the decision was made to look at more minor things (trim/ballisters/ferrules etc.) and make some minor adjustments. It was at this point that we started looking at the styling of the horn and the impact, good or bad, it would have. The "beta", which I will post tomorrow at some point, brings the horn to 90% finished in terms of how well it sounds, how it plays, the ergonomics and overall styling.
As always feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will answer them to the best of my ability. I cannot comment on a hard release date (when we are satisfied that this project meets our expectations) or a final price. (Contrary to what some people speculate we do actually consider manufacturing cost and difficulty of repair into our MSRP.)
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8335
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam R. Getzen wrote: | | The bottom flugel was built primarily out of curiosity. "Why not" comes to mind. Unsurprisingly it sounded terrible and played poorly, especially compared to the other prototypes we had just built. It was, however, much more comfortable to hold. |
Was the only difference on the bottom flugel changing the bell from one side to the other?
If so, that's surprising to me that it would make such a difference in terms of everything - sound and playability. Care to share thoughts about that?
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Adam R. Getzen wrote: | | The bottom flugel was built primarily out of curiosity. "Why not" comes to mind. Unsurprisingly it sounded terrible and played poorly, especially compared to the other prototypes we had just built. It was, however, much more comfortable to hold. |
Was the only difference on the bottom flugel changing the bell from one side to the other?
If so, that's surprising to me that it would make such a difference in terms of everything - sound and playability. Care to share thoughts about that? |
We did add those two rings. The bottom flugel was still meant to be held like the other ones and is in no way a left handed horn.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
codyb334
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 294
Location: Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Can you tell us about the leadpipe? Anything new there? How about the mouthpiece?
_________________
-Cody
1970 Bach 37/7
1988 Yamaha 6340ST
Olds L12 Flugel
GR 67L
Monette Prana BL2 S3 XLT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam R. Getzen
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 654
Location: Elkhorn, WI.
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| codyb334 wrote: | | Can you tell us about the leadpipe? Anything new there? How about the mouthpiece? |
The leadpipe and mouthpiece will not be finalized until the production models are complete. This will allow us to build them so they work specifically well with the horn. I can tell you that there are three leadpipes included with the flugel and that the mouthpiece will be made by Griego. He makes the mouthpieces included with some of our custom series trombones.
_________________
Adam R. Getzen
Vice President & Co-Owner
Getzen Company |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
