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jazztrumpet216
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 494
Location: Eau Claire, WI
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 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam V wrote: | So, let me get this straight... We ban an obviously-not-all-there member for some very mild delision-driven "attacks" (that nobody should even take seriously) on some semi-famous people involved in the industry , yet the extremely hateful attacks on the member himself are about 5 times worse than anything he's ever spewed.
I dislike scrolling through long, incoherent rambles as much as the next guy, but scrolling was all it took to have avoided this. People taking him seriously and not taking his statements with a grain of salt are what drove him to keep posting (feeding the troll) for so long. Everyone talks about how stupid he is, and how irrelevant and misguided his statements are, yet these same people actual think his posts are actually going to damage people's businesses???
Give me a break...
I guess Freedom of Speech has no place on Trumpet Herald.  |
No, it absolutely does not. I administrate a forum, and freedom of speech does NOT apply. TH is a privately owned entity and any freedom to speak is afforded by the owners- a freedom that can be revoked at any time.
As far as the rest of your post, c'mon man. You can't honestly tell me that his incoherent blabbering didn't make the forum membership look bad.
Maybe now that he is gone, I'll be more active. I stopped coming here for awhile, and every time I'd try to come back, he'd tick me off again. I complained to the moderators several times whenever he'd slander another manufacturer/craftsman in our industry and it never seemed to matter. I can't believe it took 5 years to get rid of him.
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Kevin Peterson
1940 NY Bach 7/37 — 2009 Bach Philadelphia C — 1972 Bach 37/Melk #3 — 1969 Yamaha 734 — 1961 Mt. Vernon Bach 43 — 2013 Schilke P5-4 B/G — 1990's Getzen Eterna flugel |
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Gordontrek
Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 314
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't." George S. Patton Jr.
"Those who have achieved all their aims probably set them too low." Herbert von Karajan
Bach 18043
Eastman ETR-830S
Bach 1 |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8936
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I could handle the most of the incoherent rants but it seemed to me that there were an escalating number of direct and specific attacks that pushed the bounds of civil discourse.
I'm as zealous about free-speech as anyone can be but that doesn't give anyone the right to jump into every one else's conversations and all too often make them about your own pet peeves and personal attacks.
I was deeply hurt when a previous trumpet forum was all but brought to it's knees by a single user who made it a habit of polluting and derailing a disproportionately large number of threads.
To me the TH is something of a private party and no one person need be allowed to disrupt that in the name of free speech. If you can't participate sensibly with the others then you are free to open your own forum and have at.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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veery715
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I just want to go on the record here. I don't care what any of you say (or write) about me. 
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veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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Greenleaf
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I don't come here all that often anymore, so let me get this straight . . . you're saying that after well over 5000 posts kirk has been banned? Is that right? This'll be on the 11 o'clock news! Holy moly! Really?
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Don Lee
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 730
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | I could handle the most of the incoherent rants but it seemed to me that there were an escalating number of direct and specific attacks that pushed the bounds of civil discourse.
I'm as zealous about free-speech as anyone can be but that doesn't give anyone the right to jump into every one else's conversations and all too often make them about your own pet peeves and personal attacks.
I was deeply hurt when a previous trumpet forum was all but brought to it's knees by a single user who made it a habit of polluting and derailing a disproportionately large number of threads.
To me the TH is something of a private party and no one person need be allowed to disrupt that in the name of free speech. If you can't participate sensibly with the others then you are free to open your own forum and have at. |
Very well said and I couldn't agree more.
Just ignoring bad posts doesn't make them or the poster go away. It simply doesn't work and at the very least it derails so many useful and informative threads.
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My and my son's horns:
WT Silver Bb
Kanstul Chicago 1000
Holton Stratodyne-circa 1950's
Holton Al Hirt
Yamaha 2310 Flugel, Wedge, GR etc.
http://www.homedesignarchitects.com |
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Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7771
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm 100% with Adam and Mike on this- some of the more pious members here must be feeling pretty good by now, and I suppose a preponderance of the mods as well for exercising their power to make members follow the rules about being "nice" when it is either politically correct or is inline with the judgement of the mob. Seriously, some of you should be ashamed. 
Last edited by Craig Swartz on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| trptcoach wrote: | | After reading these 6 pages of posts, I've concluded you're all DICKS...the lot you!! |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam V wrote: | So, let me get this straight... We ban an obviously-not-all-there member for some very mild delision-driven "attacks" (that nobody should even take seriously) on some semi-famous people involved in the industry , yet the extremely hateful attacks on the member himself are about 5 times worse than anything he's ever spewed.
I dislike scrolling through long, incoherent rambles as much as the next guy, but scrolling was all it took to have avoided this. People taking him seriously and not taking his statements with a grain of salt are what drove him to keep posting (feeding the troll) for so long. Everyone talks about how stupid he is, and how irrelevant and misguided his statements are, yet these same people actual think his posts are actually going to damage people's businesses???
Give me a break...
I guess Freedom of Speech has no place on Trumpet Herald. |
I wasn't going to weigh (or rather, wade) in here, other than my laughing at the funny comment made by trptcoach in my prior reply.
But... I've got to agree with Adam here.
In my years here on the TH, I've seen a LOT of EXTREMELY nasty remarks hurled at Mr. Baumchen. And yes, I've seen him insult others, including some well-regarded trumpet techs, designers, etc. But unless I've missed something (quite possible since I don't actively seek to read all of the good Capt's posts), he never put out worse venom than that which he has received - quite often - over the years. So unless he called someone a big poo-poo head, I think the reaction is a bit over the top here.
Seriously, can everyone breathe in, enjoy the fact that they can breathe in, and realize that all in all, life's pretty good? It's the Christmas season. Here's my Christmas wish for the Trumpet Herald:
I hope that if John Baumchen's been banned, it's temporary and he comes back with a better attitude and doesn't insult people. And I hope the people I've seen send some pretty nasty comments his way over and over, stop doing that. Basically, I hope everybody plays nice together.
Merry Christmas,
John Mohan
P.S. Please forgive me for not taking the time to read all these 7 pages, or to try to search for and find what all the fuss is about in the other topic threads which caused this discussion - I made the decision to practice my Irons flexibilities instead. It just seems more productive to me. |
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oldblow
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 676
Location: Mitchell, Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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The fuss, John, is that Josh Landress does not plan to participate in the forum any longer because of CK's posts. That is a real loss, just as any of the other great and knowledgeable techs decided the same thing for the same reason.
That event is bringing to a head all the nuisance value that making personal remarks in posts engenders. There has been a perceptible trend for a while away from the forum being a place for players of all levels, with the professional people, players and techs alike, participating enough so that those of use who do not live in rich musical environments can access both the knowledge and the atmosphere of this forum.
Many people here know each other well, and we all enjoy the little jibes you guys make in fun. But the antagonism between trolls and those who answer them has gotten pretty distasteful. Perhaps by airing this out, we can return to civility.
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Blue Trane
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 669
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | | Adam V wrote: | So, let me get this straight... We ban an obviously-not-all-there member for some very mild delision-driven "attacks" (that nobody should even take seriously) on some semi-famous people involved in the industry , yet the extremely hateful attacks on the member himself are about 5 times worse than anything he's ever spewed.
I dislike scrolling through long, incoherent rambles as much as the next guy, but scrolling was all it took to have avoided this. People taking him seriously and not taking his statements with a grain of salt are what drove him to keep posting (feeding the troll) for so long. Everyone talks about how stupid he is, and how irrelevant and misguided his statements are, yet these same people actual think his posts are actually going to damage people's businesses???
Give me a break...
I guess Freedom of Speech has no place on Trumpet Herald. |
I wasn't going to weigh (or rather, wade) in here, other than my laughing at the funny comment made by trptcoach in my prior reply.
But... I've got to agree with Adam here.
In my years here on the TH, I've seen a LOT of EXTREMELY nasty remarks hurled at Mr. Baumchen. And yes, I've seen him insult others, including some well-regarded trumpet techs, designers, etc. But unless I've missed something (quite possible since I don't actively seek to read all of the good Capt's posts), he never put out worse venom than that which he has received - quite often - over the years. So unless he called someone a big poo-poo head, I think the reaction is a bit over the top here.
Seriously, can everyone breathe in, enjoy the fact that they can breathe in, and realize that all in all, life's pretty good? It's the Christmas season. Here's my Christmas wish for the Trumpet Herald:
I hope that if John Baumchen's been banned, it's temporary and he comes back with a better attitude and doesn't insult people. And I hope the people I've seen send some pretty nasty comments his way over and over, stop doing that. Basically, I hope everybody plays nice together.
Merry Christmas,
John Mohan
P.S. Please forgive me for not taking the time to read all these 7 pages, or to try to search for and find what all the fuss is about in the other topic threads which caused this discussion - I made the decision to practice my Irons flexibilities instead. It just seems more productive to me. |
I agree with John, Adam and Nate. I haven't read any CK posts in years as I know to scroll and ignore but the posts that I have read have been fairly innocuous. I hope the ban is temporary. I've been impressed with the mods restraint in the past when some members were trying to get him banned. I'm also not going to read all 7 pages here and other related threads. I'm going to play some note bends, arpeggios and help my niece learn to play the flute. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12699
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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For all those people that take the ignore path, I am glad it worked for you. It doesn't for all.
It is interesting that many people who claim to ignore the posts are the same people who state there is no harm in the posts they didn't read.  |
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Don Lee
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 730
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | For all those people that take the ignore path, I am glad it worked for you. It doesn't for all.
It is interesting that many people who claim to ignore the posts are the same people who state there is no harm in the posts they didn't read. |
Yes.
_________________
My and my son's horns:
WT Silver Bb
Kanstul Chicago 1000
Holton Stratodyne-circa 1950's
Holton Al Hirt
Yamaha 2310 Flugel, Wedge, GR etc.
http://www.homedesignarchitects.com |
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Blue Trane
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 669
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I've read a great many of CK posts. I now barely scan what he writes as its not a productive use of my time. When I scanned this thread I didn't see anything that indicated that he wrote anything so terrible or different than he's posted over the years. If its impossible for you not to read everything posted and become so easily offended then that's on you. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12699
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue Trane wrote: | | I've read a great many of CK posts. I now barely scan what he writes as its not a productive use of my time. When I scanned this thread I didn't see anything that indicated that he wrote anything so terrible or different than he's posted over the years. If its impossible for you not to read everything posted and become so easily offended then that's on you. |
When you read his posts over the last month feel free to join the discussion. |
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Blue Trane
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 669
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe you should complain to the mods that I'm not as informed as you and my opinion isn't as valid as yours and that I should no longer be allowed to post here. |
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Adam V
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 1765
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | For all those people that take the ignore path, I am glad it worked for you. It doesn't for all. |
Were you forced to read it at gunpoint or something? How is it that you were unable to skip his posts?
| Quote: | | It is interesting that many people who claim to ignore the posts are the same people who state there is no harm in the posts they didn't read. |
I never said there was no harm in any of his posts, nor did I say I didn't read any of them. There is "harm" in a huge portion of all the posts on this website. It's a forum, for crying out loud... The only times I really read Kirk's posts were when my favorite threads started getting hijacked with anti-Kirk stuff--and that was just because I was curious to know what started all the fuss.
Think of all the hating, protesting, and complaining to the moderators that could've been avoided if you and all the other Kirk haters just stopped reading/responding to his posts--yeah, I know it's hard for you, personally--once you realized he bothered you. If you don't read something, it can't bother you! What a concept, right?
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1970 Bach 37 Strad
Yamaha 635 flugel
Marcinkiewicz E3/3C
Last edited by Adam V on Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12699
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue Trane wrote: | | Maybe you should complain to the mods that I'm not as informed as you and my opinion isn't as valid as yours and that I should no longer be allowed to post here. |
Why would I do that? I have never complained to the mods about the cap'n either.
It isn't very nice to be dismissed is it? That is exactly what your post did.
If you take offense that is on you, right? |
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Blue Trane
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 669
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I decided not to take your suggestion to leave the discussion and return only when I've read every CK post for the past month. That's all. |
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homecookin
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 868
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Craig Swarz...some of you should be ashamed
of yourselves. Some of you sound like a bunch of fifth grade cry
babies. ENOUGH ALREADY...GIVE IT A REST.
Last edited by homecookin on Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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