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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam V wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | For all those people that take the ignore path, I am glad it worked for you. It doesn't for all. |
Were you forced to read it at gunpoint or something? How is it that you were unable to skip his posts?
| Quote: | It is interesting that many people who claim to ignore the posts are the same people who state there is no harm in the posts they didn't read.  |
I never said there was no harm in any of his posts, nor did I say I didn't read any of them. There is "harm" in a huge portion of all the posts on this website. It's a forum, for crying out loud... The only times I really read Kirk's posts were when my favorite threads started getting hijacked with anti-Kirk stuff--and that was just because I was curious to know what started all the fuss.
Think of all the hating, protesting, and complaining to the moderators that could've been avoided if you and all the other Kirk haters just stopped reading/responding to his posts--yeah, I know it's hard for you, personally! If you don't read something, it can't bother you! What a concept, right? |
Adam, I get it. You have a solution that works for you. It didn't for many.
But your solution is only a stopgap. The real solution is either active moderation to ensure the posts stay in bounds, which given the quantity of words posted would be a monstrous task. Or to ban.
Think of all the hating, protesting, and complaining to the moderators that will be avoided now that we won't have those posts anymore. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think that I have posted enough here also.
I want to note that I never complained to the monitors about the cap'n. I have been careful for a while to avoid doing anything in response to his posts, except correct facts. I did not participate in any of the cap'n bashing in the thread that was removed.
But I do believe that the solution to the issue is to address the root cause, not to expect everyone else to change their ways.
Nuf said. |
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crzytptman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Swartz wrote: | | ... some of the more pious members here must be feeling pretty good by now, and I suppose a preponderance of the mods as well for members follow the rules about being "nice" when it is politically correct or is inline with the judgement of the mob. |
Oh no - democracy? I'm pretty sure our Founding Fathers knew that would never work. And now we know they were right . . .
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Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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yourbrass
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 3636
Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hey , you all seem to forget, and/or overlook the fact that this cat engages in PERSONAL ATTACKS on people. Is there or is there not a line over which people can stomp and offend? I say the user guidelines of this site forbid that, and should be adhered to. Are there any rules here?
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Edwards X-13
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pc2001197
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 116
Location: Lexington KY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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How about everyone just enjoy and cherish the "little" community we have here and practice...
V |
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Flattergrub
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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To whomever the OP was that started that magnificent final post that got the Capt. banned - I salute and raise my glass to you dear sir for a job well done. You boldly went where no one has been able to go before.
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Smith Watkins "Soloist" cornet with K2 and T4 leadpipes and Denis Wick RW4 mpc |
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Retlaw
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 3263
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Adam V wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | For all those people that take the ignore path, I am glad it worked for you. It doesn't for all. |
Were you forced to read it at gunpoint or something? How is it that you were unable to skip his posts?
| Quote: | | It is interesting that many people who claim to ignore the posts are the same people who state there is no harm in the posts they didn't read. |
I never said there was no harm in any of his posts, nor did I say I didn't read any of them. There is "harm" in a huge portion of all the posts on this website. It's a forum, for crying out loud... The only times I really read Kirk's posts were when my favorite threads started getting hijacked with anti-Kirk stuff--and that was just because I was curious to know what started all the fuss.
Think of all the hating, protesting, and complaining to the moderators that could've been avoided if you and all the other Kirk haters just stopped reading/responding to his posts--yeah, I know it's hard for you, personally--once you realized he bothered you. If you don't read something, it can't bother you! What a concept, right? |
You are of course right that it is possible to not read posts. The problem with Kirk was that he was very gifted in turning threads into his own. He was an expert at turning things his way and I don't think he minded the flak because a response was better than none. He is known on TH more than any other because of this. He got what he wanted for a very long time ...he got the attention he seemed to crave. Ignoring him I suspect would have been the meanest thing you could do to him. Many people here tried to converse with him and try get him to engage but he would rarely answer a question or join the conversion.
There is no question that we here on TH have differing opinions and quite often we think we are opposed only to discover that once the semantics are out of the way that we are pretty close. Kirk when challenged on an idea would rarely try to explain his view ...he would then just change tack. Once he had stirred a thread to boiling he would leave seemingly successful in his intention. TH will have a huge hole without him and ultimately it may feel very flat to not have him stirring us up.
Yes it is easy not to read posts but when almost every thread in a forum is filled with what you are trying to avoid you have little option but to leave. An ignore button doesn't work because of the direction and response to the ignored post.
Will Kirk come back....I doubt it. It just might be the best thing for him. Entering an arena where he feels everyone is against him can't be helpful ....that was his perception but not totally true. It would have been very easy for him to befriend people but that just did not seem to be his agenda.
In one of his last posts he said that he avoided public events because he was wanted to avoid the consequences. He saw all of us as xxxxx and xxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxx's even those who support him now. That mentality is what has eventually got him banned. In reality he was deluded because I suspect that had he turned up at one of the big events he would have been swamped with people wanting to get to know him...a folk hero..."quirky" of course. I doubt many..if any... here would have face to face animosity with him....on the printed page he was a pain in the buttocks for many. I hope he is bold enough to venture out and find that most of us would be happy to meet him over a cup of coffee.
This is not meant to be an obituary and I am sure there is plenty of life left...I hope we will see some of his horn ideas become a success....of course it won't have a 37 bell or a 25 lead pipe but you never know with him...what I do know is that the valve block will only cost 15 bucks! and it won't be monel...he taught us well! 
Walter
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"Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice." |
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supportlivejazz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 3757
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Retlaw wrote: |
You are of course right that it is possible to not read posts. The problem with Kirk was that he was very gifted in turning threads into his own. He was an expert at turning things his way and I don't think he minded the flak because a response was better than none. He is known on TH more than any other because of this. He got what he wanted for a very long time ...he got the attention he seemed to crave. Ignoring him I suspect would have been the meanest thing you could do to him. Many people here tried to converse with him and try get him to engage but he would rarely answer a question or join the conversion.
Yes it is easy not to read posts but when almost every thread in a forum is filled with what you are trying to avoid you have little option but to leave. An ignore button doesn't work because of the direction and response to the ignored post.
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Exactly... and exactly why this has happened before. I agree with the moderator from TM...
"Re: lovevixen555 AKA
He was a phony right from the start here."
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Conn 6B
1940s Blessing Artist
Olds LA Special Model Cornet
"I'm not apologizing, I am what I am. There'll be no compromising, I don't give a damn." |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | For all those people that take the ignore path, I am glad it worked for you. It doesn't for all.
It is interesting that many people who claim to ignore the posts are the same people who state there is no harm in the posts they didn't read. |
One of the better posts I've seen here in some time.
Brad361
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| crzytptman wrote: | | AndyLott wrote: | | crzytptman wrote: | Y'know, reading through all this whining and calls for mommy moderator to protect us from the bad man makes me want to stop posting here. I think Trent defended himself quite well, and if it were me that would be the end of it. Kirk was making valid points, he just made invalid assumptions about Trent and his business, driven by whatever agenda he has. Trent set him straight. The end.
Grow up, people. |
I think we can all agree Trent defended himself well, but I think the point others are making is that he shouldn't have to defend himself from baseless accusations like that. |
What's wrong with defending yourself? I know this is an international forum, but you and I are in America, and I lament that being able to defend oneself has been conditioned out of most Americans. Much respect to Trent for having something worth defending, and being man enough to defend it.
The rest of you go on and on and on about the bad man and it makes me sick. |
Nate,
I do agree with some of that, especially regarding how our society has been wussified in the last decade. But you know, I wonder what your response might be if Kirk had taken a shot a Flip Oakes and / or his well-respected horns? I do remember you making a statement along the lines of Mr. Oakes being a "great man" (which he in fact may well be) in response to someone criticizing him or his horns. There is an adage something like "it depends on WHOSE Ox is being gored" that seems to apply here.
(And just to be crystal clear here, I am in no way criticizing Mr. Oakes or his equipment, just using this as an example).
Brad361
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7770
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| And we've now reached 8 pages. The most "strange" part about all this BS is that the mods have let the thread linger in the Hornscategory rather than tossing it into the Lounge or Reveille. It's amazing what constitutes "big news" among some of the people around here. |
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Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: |
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I didn't read Retlaw's post above. Too long. I didn't read CK's posts either. Too long. I've found that those that are too long are frequently people trying to justify a position. I don't care about that. I'm here for information about technique, equipment and interesting performers. You know, music stuff?
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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notecracker
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: |
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The moderators would also do well to reconsider who they have appointed to moderate the Dedicated Forums. It's quite absurd having the author or dyed-in-the-wool disciple of a particular method moderating its dedicated forum. That's hardly a recipe for open discussion.
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RIP Maurice, 1933-2012. The greatest. |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'd sure like to see us skip the repeats and just turn it over.
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
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Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7770
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| notecracker wrote: | | The moderators would also do well to reconsider who they have appointed to moderate the Dedicated Forums. It's quite absurd having the author or dyed-in-the-wool disciple of a particular method moderating its dedicated forum. That's hardly a recipe for open discussion. |
Well, I'd certainly want someone in that position who knew what the hell was being discussed. Some of the differences between varying pedagogical approaches are quite minute. We all, in the end, are doing essentially the same thing in playing the trumpet- breathing in and out, pulsing the lips, sustaining tone and somehow changing pitch between the partials. It would be tough for someone to moderate BE or TCE that didn't use one or the other and was not an advocate. What can get a poster in "trouble" is when we respond to a thread in headline on the Home page without checking to see in which forum it has been posted. BT/DT.. My fault, NBD.
Gawd- me stick up for the mods???  |
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notecracker
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Craig Swartz wrote: | | Well, I'd certainly want someone in that position who knew what the hell was being discussed. Some of the differences between varying pedagogical approaches are quite minute... It would be tough for someone to moderate BE or TCE that didn't use one or the other and was not an advocate.... |
I don't think it would be tough for a non-expert to moderate one of these forums. The moderator's main job is to be a voice of moderation not to be an expert. That's not easy when your book sales are directly affected by the discussion.
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RIP Maurice, 1933-2012. The greatest. |
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Pocket Monkeys
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 598
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| The issue here is that there is a fine line between dissension and slander. Nothing more, nothing less. CK crossed that line for 5 years. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Pocket Monkeys wrote: | | The issue here is that there is a fine line between dissension and slander. Nothing more, nothing less. CK crossed that line for 5 years. |
+1.
And those who decry this having now reached 8 pages.....ok, so why are you adding comments that may take it to 9?
Kirk has been a source of controversy for years, did we think that his (alleged) banishment would not cause a ton of discussion among his detractors and supporters?
If all this annoys anyone, skip to another topic already!
Brad361
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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gbshelbymi
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1032
Location: Travelers Rest, SC
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Adam V wrote: | | If you don't read something, it can't bother you! What a concept, right? |
Sorry, but his calling into question (to put it mildly) the qualifications and integrity of a couple of respected businessmen could definitely bother them (Landress and Austin) whether or not they actually read his posts. What happens if someone new logs in here, or does a google search trying to learn about Trent, for example, as I did myself a year or so ago when I started playing again, and they see the comments that CK posted about Trent. If I were to have seen some of CK's comments about Trent at that time, I would have likely stayed away from his site, and wouldn't have had the pleasure of dealing with Trent through the acquisition of two horns, a couple of cases, and a number of mouthpieces.
So, yes, he's free to say (type) whatever he pleases. He's also free to deal with the consequences of his comments, whatever they be. I just know that if I were in Trent's or Landress' shoes, I would be contacting a lawyer at least exploring my options.
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Greg
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Getzen 3850 Custom - Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn - Getzen Severinsen Eterna LB - 70s Bach 180ML37 - 70s Bach CL 229 25C - CarolBrass Pocket - 40 Conn 80A etc. |
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mm55
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1412
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | If all this annoys anyone, skip to another topic already!
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... hmm ... where else have I heard that kind of advice?
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'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
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