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veery715
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not word of mouth, it is written statements, so the term is libel. In any case, I doubt very much you will be able to find someone willing to litigate based what is posted here. We are just not that darned important, and take ourselves way too seriously, really!

It continues to crack me up how vehement we can become when we disagree. How dull it would be if everyone had the same point of view! We should celebrate our ability to disagree and still be respectful of the other.
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gbshelbymi
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Joined: 03 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
... and still be respectful of the other.

And therein lies the issue.
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wvtrumpet
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the "Captain" is now gone, then who is flying this here ship? LOL Merry Christmas fellow members!!!
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yourbrass
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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Location: Pacifica, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one of the problems is the "15 or 20 moderators." Not that there's any problem with any of these people, but how could there be a single standard or set of rules when you've got that many viewpoints?

And how did the slander from this person go on for five years? I'm as willing as the next person to hear any opinion anyone wants to voice, but slander, personal attacks, etc., look out!
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Moderators
TH Moderator Group


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 3896

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
The most "strange" part about all this BS is that the mods have let the thread linger in the Horns category rather than tossing it into the Lounge or Reveille.

Done and done.

Craig Swartz wrote:
notecracker wrote:
The moderators would also do well to reconsider who they have appointed to moderate the Dedicated Forums. It's quite absurd having the author or dyed-in-the-wool disciple of a particular method moderating its dedicated forum. That's hardly a recipe for open discussion.

Well, I'd certainly want someone in that position who knew what the hell was being discussed. [...] Gawd- me stick up for the mods???

See, Craig, we're not so bad!

The whole point of the Dedicated Forums is that they are for discussing the particulars of a method, not having an open discussion about its merits. If you want to argue about whether Claude Gordon is better than Carmine Caruso, you may do so in the Fundamentals or Pedagogy forums (and wear your flame-proof underwear). If you want to learn about Carmine Caruso's approach without having to argue about Claude Gordon, that's what the Dedicated Forum is for.

yourbrass wrote:
I think one of the problems is the "15 or 20 moderators." Not that there's any problem with any of these people, but how could there be a single standard or set of rules when you've got that many viewpoints?

Not including the System Administrator, there are actually nine of us. The whole point is that we don't look at everything the same way, so that none of us can use our Moderator privileges to advance a particular agenda. A lot of people would be pretty surprised if they knew just how much diversity of opinion exists among the Moderators. In some ways, having nine Moderators makes it easier to act, because, for instance, I know that if I can convince [name redacted] that a political thread needs to be pulled, I'm enforcing the rules, not promoting my own views.

Certain things are obvious -- we don't need to discuss whether to ban the kitchen spammers. Certain things are less obvious; we discuss these matters until we reach an agreement. In the present case, anybody who thinks this was an easy decision should consider the fact that there are now nine pages of debate on the subject on this thread alone.
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chuck in ny
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3597
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

of course this is a private forum and its own ways apply. otherwise we have some solid traditions and ways. free speech is allowed up to incitement to riot and similar conduct.
nobody is sacred and if someone wants to say their work sucks so be it. when you say it about craftsmen with stradivarius-like sensitivity, we all know who such people are and the comments can be taken for what they are worth.
the rough and tumble and completely tasteless behavior are part of our tradition.
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trmptz
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Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 791
Location: St. Louis "Blues"!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flattergrub wrote:
To whomever the OP was that started that magnificent final post that got the Capt. banned - I salute and raise my glass to you dear sir for a job well done. You boldly went where no one has been able to go before.



WOOHOO!!!! YES!!!!
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Fig
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Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"In my years here on the TH, I've seen a LOT of EXTREMELY nasty remarks hurled at Mr. Baumchen. And yes, I've seen him insult others, including some well-regarded trumpet techs, designers, etc. But unless I've missed something (quite possible since I don't actively seek to read all of the good Capt's posts), he never put out worse venom than that which he has received - quite often - over the years ...

… Here's my Christmas wish for the Trumpet Herald:

I hope that if John Baumchen's been banned, it's temporary and he comes back with a better attitude and doesn't insult people. And I hope the people I've seen send some pretty nasty comments his way over and over, stop doing that. Basically, I hope everybody plays nice together."

I agree with the above. Nothing CK said bothered me half as much as the really mean spirited things that were said about him.


Last edited by Fig on Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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VetPsychWars
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 7196
Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It comes down to this... after many years of this puppy pooping on the rugs and incapable of learning not to, he was got rid of.

Simple as that.

Tom
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Gordontrek
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Joined: 08 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may but in, I'm only curious, was he actually banned?
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supportlivejazz
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Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 3757

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where am I??? I've never been in this Forum before. How did I end up here? Are we in a new galaxy? Ensign Chekov... position please. I believe I am lost.
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gbdeamer
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Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2288

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordontrek wrote:
If I may but in, I'm only curious, was he actually banned?


Because despite many warnings and efforts from others to teach him, John never learned how to play along with others.

The final straw(s) were in a thread that's since been deleted.
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homecookin
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Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 868

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read the title of this thread I thought Doc Severinsen (or some other amazingly talented trumpet player) had died. But it was really only about Captian Kirk . Kirk is obnoxious, insulting, rude, full of ideas that have no basis in the real world of brass instrument manufacturing, and the list could go on and on. But the thing that irritates me the most about Kirk is his pathetic ( 5th grade) use of the written English langauge...grammar, spelling, punctuation, and on and on.
But I really don't think any one member of this website is any more important that any other member. Let me use Mr. Gtezen as an example . The Getzen family has been making world class brass instruments for generations. I have heard many players state that they (Getzen) make the best valve block in the business. I do not play a Getzen trumpet, but I have "play tested" several of their horns and I personally liked their Proteus model , which I believe they list as a step up model, it is a great playing horn. And I do know for a fact that Getzen makes the best valve trombone in the business...998 Eterna Valve Trombone. It is lightweight and the intonation is dead on, which is quite a deal for valve trombones. Having said all of that ...Mr. Getzen is a big boy and I'm quite sure that he doesn't need any of y'all to fight his battles for him. I'm not familiar with Mr. Landress' products, so I can't comment, no disrespect intended. As for Mr. Austin, I seem to remember that several years back he posted on TH that he was fed up with TH and would be leaving the website, never to return. I don't recall if it was related directly to Captian Kirk or not, but he did say he was leaving.
I don't believe that I am wrong about that but you can do some research and check it out.
My point is that I think some of y'all are taking TH a little too seriuosly,
not too mention "piling on" and having way too much fun bashing Kirk.
Whether Mr. Getzen, Mr. Landress, or Mr. Austin( who may leave and come back again) leave the website or not, TH will go on and people will enjoy the discussions about trumpet and trumpet players and trumpet playing.
I enjoy TH, and some of the info (not all) is imformative and instructive. But it is just a trumpet chat forum (as others have said). Life is full of obnoxiuos people that we all have to learn to deal with, be it on the bandstand or anywhere else.
And if Kirk has "libeled" (in the strict leagal sense of the term) well, that is what attorneys are for.
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VetPsychWars
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how well acquainted you are with web forums in general, but I see you've recently joined this one.

After a while a forum gets to feel like home away from home and the other posters as extended family.

Someone who disturbs that eventually wears out his welcome.

Tom
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Kslice
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 79
Location: N.Ky

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My turn! I found the capt. to be at the very least entertaining, at most deeply disturbed. It seemed with each post he became more and more disconnected. I do think his comments to Mr. Landress, Mr Austin, and also Mr. Getzen did cross the line. In a way I'll kind of miss the capt., he had a unique way of viewing things. I also hope that common sense will prevail in the future

In the words of that great theologian, "Can't we all just get along...."

Finally, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT!
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maguro73
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Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 54
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flattergrub wrote:
To whomever the OP was that started that magnificent final post that got the Capt. banned - I salute and raise my glass to you dear sir for a job well done. You boldly went where no one has been able to go before.



No comment on the controversy, but Chimay is a wonderful brew. Great for a cool winter evening and good music.
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This (at this time) nine page thread should be renamed "The Argument Clinic".




































Wait for it...













































You know it's coming...






























































Link
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maguro73 wrote:
No comment on the controversy, but Chimay is a wonderful brew. Great for a cool winter evening and good music.


It certainly is not!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gbdeamer wrote:
The final straw(s) were in a thread that's since been deleted.


That thread has never been nor will it ever be deleted!
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RandyManhandler
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Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 122
Location: Podewell Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For quite sometime I eagerly awaited the next post from Captain Kirk to pounce on it like a cat going after a demented mouse. I always tried to answer his posts with humor in the hope of getting a chuckle or two and point out the lunacy of of a deluded dude gone rude but when he attacked Trent the dueling pistol had to come out! This Forum has long been a vehicle for learning, trading ideas and opinions. Not for personal attacks. Trent has a wonderful reputation, has spent countless hours learning all things trumpet and has always been willing to share his knowledge with Forum readers. It's time for Captain Kirk to jump into his spaceship (which he no doubt built from old tuna cans and discarded dentures) to "boldly go where no man has gone before" and stay there!
Randy
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