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Less Presure when going up ?


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trjeam
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2001 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have noticed something that when I squeal a note or go higher I use less preasure as I go up . Is this something weird or is it this way with everyone .
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Quadruple C
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-10-01 14:48 ]
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Emb_Enh
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's how I started too! --keep experimenting with it---but not to the point of exhaustion!!

Roddy o-iii<O
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number juan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I decided to bring this topic back. I do the same thing. At first it sounded like squeals and squeaks at first but now are pretty strong. It's actually easier to play the notes directly above a high c than the notes directly below. Any comments on this type of playing in the upper register. Is this the correct way to play, with very little pressure from the arms and just letting the lips move with air?
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Martinharris
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but I don't like the sound of that.
My guess would be that you have a pretty weak, squeaky, quiet upper register like Trent Austin or Jason Harrelson (they use a very small aperture, low pressure approach that gives you a really thin, quiet upper register.)
Players who have that strong, rich sounding upper register such as Maynard, Brian macdonald and Wayne Bergeron all have a tendency to want to use more pressure on the upper register BUT have learnt to only use the minimal amount necessary.
Doc severinsen mentioned that too little pressure can cause more problems then too much.
That's just what's going on in my head, ignore me if you wish.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martinharris wrote:
Sorry, but I don't like the sound of that.
My guess would be that you have a pretty weak, squeaky, quiet upper register like Trent Austin or Jason Harrelson (they use a very small aperture, low pressure approach that gives you a really thin, quiet upper register.)
Players who have that strong, rich sounding upper register such as Maynard, Brian macdonald and Wayne Bergeron all have a tendency to want to use more pressure on the upper register BUT have learnt to only use the minimal amount necessary.
Doc severinsen mentioned that too little pressure can cause more problems then too much.
That's just what's going on in my head, ignore me if you wish.


Your wish is my command.
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roynj
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your embouchure is reasonably well developed, you may not notice more pressure when ascending, but it may actually be there. In my own playing, if I really work on chops I find that I have a fairly consistent pressure in all registers. At least it seems this way. I have no way of measuring it like some kinda university professor doing a scientifical study.
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number juan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope. Not quiet at all. First time i started this it was, but now i can play soft or loud when i want to. And not weak. Strong. A little airy at times but mostly clear.
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martinharris wrote:

My guess would be that you have a pretty weak, squeaky, quiet upper register like Trent Austin or Jason Harrelson (they use a very small aperture, low pressure approach that gives you a really thin, quiet upper register.)


Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, I have to ask: have you ever heard either of those players in person? Or in settings (like, say, the lead chair in a big band) where you can be reasonably sure they're trying to play big and loud up high?
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number juan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I haven't heard them. Not sure what hearing them has to do with how loud or strong I play. I know it's not weak because I can play an f above high c well enough to project it over the rest of our over-sized jazz band. Kinda hurt the ears of the trombones in front of me from how loud it was.
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

number juan wrote:
No, I haven't heard them. Not sure what hearing them has to do with how loud or strong I play. I know it's not weak because I can play an f above high c well enough to project it over the rest of our over-sized jazz band. Kinda hurt the ears of the trombones in front of me from how loud it was.


My questions were addressed to martinharris, which is why his post was quoted in mine. I don't think you can accurately assess a trumpet player in an capacity, let alone power in the high register from a youtube, or cellphone video, which is why I ask.
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deleted_user_02066fd
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve A wrote:
number juan wrote:
No, I haven't heard them. Not sure what hearing them has to do with how loud or strong I play. I know it's not weak because I can play an f above high c well enough to project it over the rest of our over-sized jazz band. Kinda hurt the ears of the trombones in front of me from how loud it was.


My questions were addressed to martinharris, which is why his post was quoted in mine. I don't think you can accurately assess a trumpet player in an capacity, let alone power in the high register from a youtube, or cellphone video, which is why I ask.

I agree! I heard Jon Faddis about 7 years ago at SUNY Purchase. His power and projection in person is astounding. Recordings and youtube videos do him very little justice in that area of playing. He was also off the microphone a lot. He also made it look so easy.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve A wrote:
Martinharris wrote:

My guess would be that you have a pretty weak, squeaky, quiet upper register like Trent Austin or Jason Harrelson (they use a very small aperture, low pressure approach that gives you a really thin, quiet upper register.)


Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, I have to ask: have you ever heard either of those players in person? Or in settings (like, say, the lead chair in a big band) where you can be reasonably sure they're trying to play big and loud up high?


I'll keep working on my small sound!
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eviln3d
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martinharris wrote:

Doc severinsen mentioned that too little pressure can cause more problems then too much.
That's just what's going on in my head, ignore me if you wish.


How funny... Back in the 70's he was saying you didn't need to use lots of pressure to play the high notes, even recall him doing a thing where he set the horn on an extended music stand and played a high C to drive home the point that pressure isn't necessary for a high note.
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrentAustin wrote:
Steve A wrote:
Martinharris wrote:

My guess would be that you have a pretty weak, squeaky, quiet upper register like Trent Austin or Jason Harrelson (they use a very small aperture, low pressure approach that gives you a really thin, quiet upper register.)


Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, I have to ask: have you ever heard either of those players in person? Or in settings (like, say, the lead chair in a big band) where you can be reasonably sure they're trying to play big and loud up high?


I'll keep working on my small sound!


For the record, I think you sound great. I was just trying to clarify to what extent we should consider Martinharris to have an informed opinion. (Which should not be taken as an indication that I agree.)
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although my teacher Claude Gordon advocated the idea of dismissing the amount of pressure used from conscious thought and letting proper routine practice take care of the amount of pressure used, my own approach, especially in recent times differs a bit from that idea.

There certainly is no such thing as "no pressure", and in most situations (and for sure while performing) I don't think about trying to reduce pressure. But I do find when doing certain exercises (flexibilities that run from the low to the high range and also the Maggio-style Claude Gordon Systematic Approach range-building arpeggio exercises) it can be helpful to to limit (within reason) the amount of pressure used as I ascend, even though this makes it feel like it will be harder to reach those top notes. This seems to force the other aspects involved in upper register playing (the air power, the tongue level and the adjustment of the embouchure to vibrate easily on the high notes) to have to compensate and "pick up the slack" caused by not using as much mouthpiece pressure. I think this helps because when we use too much pressure, we actually clamp our lips against our teeth and prevent them from being able to move into the position they need to be in to reach even higher notes.

For instance, as I run up through the single octave arpeggios in Systematic Approach Lesson Two, Part Two, when I get to where the bottom notes of the arpeggios are above tuning C, I'll purposely try to use the same amount of pressure on the final note (an octave above) as I did on the first note of each arpeggio exercise. This has helped me to get my notes above G above High C to be more consistent day to day. And it certainly has not caused any loss of sound volume on those higher notes.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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milomannino
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Solid Upper Register Need Pressure Reply with quote

Who really wants to squeal in the upper register? I understand that minimal pressure and an achievement for greater endurance, more vibration and blood flow, but pressure is a necessity for a solid upper register sound.
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StupidBrassObsession
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
Martinharris wrote:
Sorry, but I don't like the sound of that.
My guess would be that you have a pretty weak, squeaky, quiet upper register like Trent Austin or Jason Harrelson (they use a very small aperture, low pressure approach that gives you a really thin, quiet upper register.)
Players who have that strong, rich sounding upper register such as Maynard, Brian macdonald and Wayne Bergeron all have a tendency to want to use more pressure on the upper register BUT have learnt to only use the minimal amount necessary.
Doc severinsen mentioned that too little pressure can cause more problems then too much.
That's just what's going on in my head, ignore me if you wish.


Your wish is my command.

+1
This forum is a cool place... Until this sort of stuff gets posted. Sigh.

Edit: To clarify, the +1 is to Mike Sailor's comment. The rest is aimed at MartinHarris's comments re trent austin and jason harrelson.
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number juan
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I've thought about my playing and have come to this conclusion. Up to about a high c, I tend to use the method so many people are guilty of using, pressure. I don't shove the trumpet in my face, but it does tire me out fairly quickly, then above high c, I pull the trumpet foreword a little and use significantly less pressure allowing me to go higher than would normally be possible. After this the less pressure moves my aperture without changing the placement of my lips in such a way that in the past couple of months I've extended my possible range from a high d to a g or a. However once this change happens I slowly use more pressure as I acend while using more air and lip compression to minimize the rate at which I increase mouthpiece pressure. I'm playing higher than ever, easier than ever and longer than ever. I can play using the little pressure way in both the middle, high, or low register, but is extremely difficult to play accurately in the non-high registers and so until I work on it during the summer to grow accustomed to it, it is more practical to use the mouthpiece pressure approach for my school music other than in some portions of my jazz music.
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mark61
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you pull the horn foward a little w/o disrupting your air flow and sound /
Especially up high ?

Thanks
Mark
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