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Brass_Of_All_Trades
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 Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:23 am Post subject: Should a leadpipe buzz be in tune? |
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Lip buzzing and mouthpiece buzzing has never worked for me so I've been trying out leadpipe buzzing recently. I know that on a Bb trumpet the leadpipe pitch should be a concert Eb.
What's the goal when leadpipe buzzing? Should I be going for a pitch perfect concert Eb or is that not the point? |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
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Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
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No. Go for the sound. Pitch is approximate.
You have to have the right timbre target in your mind. Move the air smoothly and listen for a steadiness in the tone.
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trpthrld
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cheiden
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
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All buzzing (free, mouthpiece, leadpipe) can be counterproductive if not approached correctly. If it's not obviously being beneficial I'd minimize it until you can get some in-person guidance.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
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nvidal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | All buzzing (free, mouthpiece, leadpipe) can be counterproductive if not approached correctly. If it's not obviously being beneficial I'd minimize it until you can get some in-person guidance. |
This is good advice. It's more about HOW to blow anyway, be kind to your face:) but don't always be too gentle either. |
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Billy B
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like the term "buzzing" when applied to "playing" the lead pipe. A tube of 12.75" produces a pitch of approximately concert Eb. Mr. Adam would sometimes vary the pitch slightly depending on what he heard in my sound that needed to be corrected. The focus must be on the sound.
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Bill Bergren |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
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Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | I don't like the term "buzzing" when applied to "playing" the lead pipe... |
Right. You don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes you.
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Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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nvidal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | I don't like the term "buzzing" when applied to "playing" the lead pipe... |
Right. You don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes you. |
Mr. PH, is it fair to say Mr. Adam truly turned the trumpet into a Zen seeking activity? Seems that way, esp given how little there is out there on him, in terms of articles/recordings, etc.
What is there however, is as deep as it gets. Great stuff, RIP Mr. Adam |
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Billy B
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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There is a lot of good stuff on this forum
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nvidal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | There is a lot of good stuff on this forum |
No doubt. This is where I've learned the most about Mr. Adam. I love his clinic address from 1975 about the trumpet.
Efficient use of words and concepts, what a mind Mr. Adam had. One of my biggest life regrets was not getting out to Bloomington to take a live lesson.
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Don Herman rev2
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Correct me if I am wrong, little exposure to Mr. Adam, paraphrasing memory of his ITG talk...
Leadpipe buzzing is to help find the most resonant sound, learn how to do it and what it sounds/"feels" like. Whatever pitch that happens to be. Different leadpipes, mouthpieces, people will vary some in pitch. Everyone should find that pure, rich, resonant sound wherever it lies on the scale. Bend a little and the resonance frequency will pop out. Sort of like singing in a shower, every now and then you hit that magic pitch and the room just shakes.
Oh wait, that was my dog howling at me... 
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razeontherock
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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I was taught to listen for harmonics chiming in. I heard some guys that could balance those any way they wanted, kinda like a choir director ...  |
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Don Herman rev2
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Pat, your cue!
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Brass_Of_All_Trades
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
2nd unrelated question:
I've heard a fair bit about Bill Adams students but very little about the man himself (as a performer not his teachings).
What kind of player was he? Was he ever well known as a performer before he started teaching? His most well known students are largely commercial musicians. Was he one also or was he an orchestral guy? |
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Don Herman rev2
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
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Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Brass_Of_All_Trades wrote: | Thanks for the replies everyone.
2nd unrelated question:
I've heard a fair bit about Bill Adams students but very little about the man himself (as a performer not his teachings).
What kind of player was he? Was he ever well known as a performer before he started teaching? His most well known students are largely commercial musicians. Was he one also or was he an orchestral guy? |
He started teaching at IU in 1946 and taught there for over 40 years, followed by about 25 years of "retirement" teaching at his home, sometimes as many as 40 or 50 hour long lessons a week. He was pretty young when he accepted the IU gig. He had already done an undergrad degree and a master's in music theory from Eastman, as well as (I believe) a period of military service.
He did play professionally for a few years, along with acquiring playing experience during and around his academic studies. Most of his playing experience was acquired in Denver (he was a native Coloradan) and Los Angeles. He played both orchestral stuff at times (subbing in both the Denver and LA orchestras) as well as commercial stuff (radio, theater, dance bands, recording). But he was teaching full-time (and very long hours) from his late 20s. When I was his student at IU in the early '80s he regularly taught as many as 60 lessons per week.
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Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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nvidal
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | | Brass_Of_All_Trades wrote: | Thanks for the replies everyone.
2nd unrelated question:
I've heard a fair bit about Bill Adams students but very little about the man himself (as a performer not his teachings).
What kind of player was he? Was he ever well known as a performer before he started teaching? His most well known students are largely commercial musicians. Was he one also or was he an orchestral guy? |
He started teaching at IU in 1946 and taught there for over 40 years, followed by about 25 years of "retirement" teaching at his home, sometimes as many as 40 or 50 hour long lessons a week. He was pretty young when he accepted the IU gig. He had already done an undergrad degree and a master's in music theory from Eastman, as well as (I believe) a period of military service.
He did play professionally for a few years, along with acquiring playing experience during and around his academic studies. Most of his playing experience was acquired in Denver (he was a native Coloradan) and Los Angeles. He played both orchestral stuff at times (subbing in both the Denver and LA orchestras) as well as commercial stuff (radio, theater, dance bands, recording). But he was teaching full-time (and very long hours) from his late 20s. When I was his student at IU in the early '80s he regularly taught as many as 60 lessons per week. |
Mr. Adam seemed to truly be an incredible human being, with truly superhuman trumpet feats. I really enjoyed the Bob Reeves Podcast with his students talking about Mr. Adam. In particular, when they mentioned Harry James and Maynard as among many who sought his advice.
Interesting, I asked Wynton Marsalis if he studied with Mr. Adam, and he said no. It would seem like Wynton, esp with how many times he's been through Bloomington, to at least take a few lessons from Mr. Adam.
I also was wondering, what does Mr. Adam mean when he says he studied indirectly with William Vachianno?
Thanks. |
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rhodf
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: Should a leadpipe buzz be in tune? |
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One thing I learned about the leadpipe with regards to pitch is that it can be an indicator that the sound is not to the front. In my case, I got a big fat concert D. It was nice and loud and full. I had to strain to get an Eb. I thought that it might be the leadpipe or the gap, so I tried several mouthpieces out of my mouthpiece collection and it was always the same, a big fat D. The leadpipe was from an old Bach strad, so I thought it was probably fine, but I pulled the tuning slide on my new Bach strad and still a big fat D. Not until I started moving my sound to the front did the pitch come up without undue strain.
While gaps, mouthpieces and leadpipes can be slightly different causing a lower (or higher) pitch than Eb concert, sometimes a pitch other than Eb is pointing to a flaw in your approach that needs attention. This was certainly true for me. |
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nvidal
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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why would you ever care about whether a leadpipe buzz is perfectly in tune, that is a tension that almost defeats the whole purpose of the excercise in the first place? Maybe if you were going to join a leadpipe quintet, yeah, i would want to mind my pitch;)
Just my 2 cents, I'm obviously not Mr. Adam. |
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nvidal
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Btw, you don't need guidance, the LAST thing you need are a bunch of words.
You need the SOUND modeling with the leadpipe in order to do it correctly, not easy to hear on a recording, go spend the money, fly somewhere and sit with an Adam student would be my advice.
Without that, your are aiming in the dark and that is why it doesn't makes sense. PH, correct me if I'm wrong, but you use a shortned pipe to make it mentally easier to visualize fully blowing THROUGH. When it's the full trumpet, the Voodoo brain, oddly, no longer wants to brow through it, but slight more AT it, which will kill sound, and honestly, that is why the bubble excercise is so useful, to make sure you not only blow through the leadpipe, but through the whole Trompette. |
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