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JohnA19 New Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 6 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: What's the point of having several mouthpieces? |
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Currently I play a 7C on my Ambassador, and have a 6B mouthpiece as a sort of "back-up" mpc and honestly I can't tell the difference between the tones. Also, apparently shallow-cup mouthpieces like the 13a4a are considered "cheater" mouthpieces because they help you play higher easier. In some other trumpet forums, the most recommended advice to someone who is looking for a new mpc is "Use the money to buy more music and practice long tones" or something to that effect. With that in mind, at what point in my career should I consider getting a new, different mouthpiece? _________________ "Get your trumpets out of the stand and BLOW!"
--John--
1957 Ambassador |
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superviking805 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2009 Posts: 154 Location: Santa Barbara
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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When you can tell the difference between your 7C and 6B you will be ready to mouthpiece shop. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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The glib answer is, change mouthpieces when your teacher tells you to.
The less glib answer is, when you perceive that your current piece is holding you back in terms of sound, facility, endurance,...
If you're not with a teacher I advise sticking with piece until you perceive a shortcoming, then periodically try other slightly different pieces and evaluate the trade-offs.
I'd advise against jumping from a 7C to a huge Bach 1A or a tiny Schilke 6A4a or any other highly specialized piece.
I'm a bit surprised that you can't tell a difference form a 7C to a 6B. Both good pieces but the B has a deeper cup and a different back bore that should blow and sound different. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: What's the point of having several mouthpieces? |
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JohnA19 wrote: | Currently I play a 7C on my Ambassador, and have a 6B mouthpiece |
Hi John, and welcome to TH. You haven't mentioned brand name here. Are these both Bach?
Any time we wish to experiment with mouthpieces, its best to only change one variable at a time; i.e., a controlled experiment. Bach makes that almost impossible.
How long have you been playing? Age? Performance groups? |
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JohnA19 New Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 6 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: What's the point of having several mouthpieces? |
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razeontherock wrote: | JohnA19 wrote: | Currently I play a 7C on my Ambassador, and have a 6B mouthpiece |
Hi John, and welcome to TH. You haven't mentioned brand name here. Are these both Bach?
Any time we wish to experiment with mouthpieces, its best to only change one variable at a time; i.e., a controlled experiment. Bach makes that almost impossible.
How long have you been playing? Age? Performance groups? |
Hi! Yes, both of these mouthpieces are Bach. This is my sixth year playing trumpet, and I'm section leader at my high school and have played with All-District and Tri-County bands. I can't say I've ever felt "held back" by my mpcs, I'm just curious as to what situations would require a different mouthpieces. _________________ "Get your trumpets out of the stand and BLOW!"
--John--
1957 Ambassador |
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fredo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 589 Location: France
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:52 am Post subject: |
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On the kanstul mouthpiece comparator 2.0, Bach 6 B and Bach 7 C are very close.
http://kanstul.net/MPcompare/MouthpieceComparator.html
The rim of the 6B is flatter and larger but the cups are similar.
But we do not see the backbore differences on this comparator. _________________ Frederic FELTZ
Yamaha XENO 2 8335 S
Lotus 3L brass |
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bagmangood Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: |
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trpthrld wrote: | What's the point?
Simple - the right tool for the job. |
This. 100% of it should be this. There's also a degree of wanting to experiment to try to help you either with that range, that note, that sound, etc.
It is very helpful for switching between different styles of music, for example I would not play the same thing for Mahler I would for a rock band - I'd be working super hard!
The summary is: if you're comfortable with what you have, then don't switch! You'll just waste a lot of time and money doing anything else. _________________ More than one trumpet
A "few" mouthpieces |
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gbdeamer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 2302
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:01 am Post subject: |
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trpthrld wrote: | What's the point?
Simple - the right tool for the job.
If you need an explanation for that then you're not ready to have more than one gazinta. |
This.
Being "section leader at my high school and have played with All-District and Tri-County bands" sounds like a great start to the OP's playing career.
Stay on the 7C until college and then ask your trumpet professor for a recommendation of you think you need a change. _________________ 1987 Bach Strad 37
2005 Bach Strad 43*
ACB Doubler's Flugel
1948 Holton Model 48 |
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cjl Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 2421 Location: TN
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: |
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What's the point in having multiple mouthpieces????
Mankind has an innate longing for miraculous intervention. Without hope we are crushed and wander through life without meaning.
Each new mouthpiece comes with the hope that this one will perform a miraculous change in our lives.
Sure, many times that hope is dashed -- but never extinguished. And sometimes you DO find a mouthpiece that makes a noticeable difference. What an experience that is!
So acquiring a new mouthpiece is an affirmation of a belief in the divine!
Mouthpieces are, as such, a bargain. Invest in your mental well-being and collect as many as you can!
-- Joe |
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MacMichael Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 646
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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cjl wrote: | What's the point in having multiple mouthpieces????
So acquiring a new mouthpiece is an affirmation of a belief in the divine!
Mouthpieces are, as such, a bargain. Invest in your mental well-being and collect as many as you can! |
Hahaha, Joe, that is a fantastic case for gear acquiring syndrome...!
Additionally, do not forget: by purchasing a mouthpiece a day you feed the mouths
of hungry mouthpiece makersī children of course |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Go here:
http://abel.hive.no/trompet/playerhorn/
Then explore all of their sounds. Spend some time. Some of them used only one mouthpiece. Look at the sounds in times past and sounds now. Just as an example, I was reviewing the TOP sounds through the last forty years. Lead trumpet sound changed quite a bit. Your opinion whether it changed for better or worse or it doesn't matter.
Look at the change in many genres. Have an opinion. Decide for yourself. What sound do you want? _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: Re: What's the point of having several mouthpieces? |
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JohnA19 wrote: | razeontherock wrote: | JohnA19 wrote: | Currently I play a 7C on my Ambassador, and have a 6B mouthpiece |
Hi John, and welcome to TH. You haven't mentioned brand name here. Are these both Bach?
Any time we wish to experiment with mouthpieces, its best to only change one variable at a time; i.e., a controlled experiment. Bach makes that almost impossible.
How long have you been playing? Age? Performance groups? |
Hi! Yes, both of these mouthpieces are Bach. This is my sixth year playing trumpet, and I'm section leader at my high school and have played with All-District and Tri-County bands. I can't say I've ever felt "held back" by my mpcs, I'm just curious as to what situations would require a different mouthpieces. |
john
the most common situation here would be lead players and high note artists using a shallower mouthpiece.
then you have a good bit of players getting a deeper cup wanting a richer tone.
i personally feel the mid road C cup encompasses the spectrum of trumpet sound and is a good place to stay.
people in your situation frequently upsize to a 3C, feeling it gives them easier articulations and more importantly a fuller sound.
it's all how the piece feels while you are playing. if anything seems amiss, you can experiment some. |
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Hugh Anderson Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Posts: 398
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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They do make a difference. Try a really big one and a really small one. You probably won't like either one, but you'll get something of an idea. |
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Usedtobegood Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 442 Location: Cary, IL
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: |
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What's the point in having multiple mouthpieces????
Because they are there.
Because they fill the empty slots in my mouthpiece pouch.
I like the way they weigh down my case or gig bag.
A guy just can never have enough mouthpieces. |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Trumpetherald would fold otherwise. _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Something like: what's the point of having several books? |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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jetjaguar wrote: | Trumpetherald would fold otherwise. |
Seriously, a developing player should have one and only one good, normal sized mouthpiece and stick with it always. Switching to different mouthpieces hinders development.
Once somebody reaches professional levels of ability, if and only if they play a wide enough variety of styles of music to warrant it, then one will usually find that a slightly shallower mouthpiece than their usual one will make for a brighter, more commercial sound, and a mouthpiece slightly deeper than their usual one will make for a darker, more symphonic sound. Contrary to common opinion, it really has nothing to do with high notes - few players find they can play any higher on a shallow piece than on a deeper one - but rather the sound they get on a shallower piece is better suited for a Tower of Power or Earth, Wind & Fire type song, while the sound they get from a deeper piece is better suited toward a Symphonic piece of music.
Note though that many famous professional players, including Uan Racey and Arturo Sandoval, rarely, if ever switch mouthpieces.
Best wishes,
John Mohan _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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zackh411 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 1886 Location: Saint Louis MO
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: What's the point of having several mouthpieces? |
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JohnA19 wrote: | Currently I play a 7C on my Ambassador, and have a 6B mouthpiece as a sort of "back-up" mpc and honestly I can't tell the difference between the tones. Also, apparently shallow-cup mouthpieces like the 13a4a are considered "cheater" mouthpieces because they help you play higher easier. In some other trumpet forums, the most recommended advice to someone who is looking for a new mpc is "Use the money to buy more music and practice long tones" or something to that effect. With that in mind, at what point in my career should I consider getting a new, different mouthpiece? |
There is no such thing as a cheater mouthpiece. People that espouse that opinion are ignorant. If the mouthpiece you like works for you for doing what you want to do, then great... but I think if people don't go out and try a few things - see what's out there - then they are missing a huge opportunity. _________________ ~Zack
Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
Legit Piece: Yamaha Shew Jazz (18 Drill) |
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zackh411 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 1886 Location: Saint Louis MO
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: |
Seriously, a developing player should have one and only one good, normal sized mouthpiece and stick with it always. Switching to different mouthpieces hinders development.
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I tend to agree, but I think learning to play on different gear should be PART of development, and not a part that we should skip over if things seem fine.
Quote: | Contrary to common opinion, it really has nothing to do with high notes - few players find they can play any higher on a shallow piece than on a deeper one - but rather the sound they get on a shallower piece is better suited for a Tower of Power or Earth, Wind & Fire type song, while the sound they get from a deeper piece is better suited toward a Symphonic piece of music. |
I have less range (still a lot of range) on bigger mouthpieces, but it really only starts to diminish once we get into the really big range. However, playing in the upper register on a larger piece is very tiring for me. I switched to bigger gear for a few months just to try things out... and man... first of all, it annihilated my extreme register for a few months (regardless of gear) and secondly, it was WAY THE HELL HARDER (but still very possible).
I'm not sure I gave it enough time to really tell if it could ever be as easy as on my small gear, but the general impression I get is "no."
I mean, for some people, a larger piece is THE RIGHT FIT, but I think in general people are going to find a smaller piece eases their access to the upper register (but doesn't necessarily extend register).
Quote: |
Note though that many famous professional players, including Uan Racey and Arturo Sandoval, rarely, if ever switch mouthpieces. |
And many famous professional players DO.
On a side note, I was talking to a friend about cruise gigs. He'd done them for a few years exclusively, and I wanted to get his opinion on a few things for another friend who is considering cruise gigs. I asked him what percentage of guys on cruise ships has he known to play the lead book on larger 3c-ish mouthpieces. He told me "nobody does that. Either they switch after a few weeks, or they wash out."
I still contend that you are the exception, rather than the rule. Nothing wrong with being exceptional though _________________ ~Zack
Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
Legit Piece: Yamaha Shew Jazz (18 Drill) |
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