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oxleyk
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 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| GrahamB wrote: | Where on earth can I buy just a rim from?
Having trouble finding one, and I'd like one the same size as my Sop Cornet mouthpiece! (i think 16.5mm) |
There are large flat washers with various size holes at hardware stores. Probably not ideal, though.
Kent |
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| GrahamB wrote: | Where on earth can I buy just a rim from?
Having trouble finding one, and I'd like one the same size as my Sop Cornet mouthpiece! (i think 16.5mm) |
http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/atv
The #5 is 16.5 |
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hackney_wick
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Delete
Last edited by hackney_wick on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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McVouty
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| I just cut the rim off a plastic mouthpiece (Kelly 3C) with a hacksaw and that works just fine. Probably cheaper than sourcing a rim. |
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Spirithorn
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Joined: 24 Nov 2004
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Location: Cary, NC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| McVouty wrote: | | I just cut the rim off a plastic mouthpiece (Kelly 3C) with a hacksaw and that works just fine. Probably cheaper than sourcing a rim. |
Excellent idea! |
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OndraJ
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hackney_wick
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Delete
Last edited by hackney_wick on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lynn9544
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Joined: 05 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Any type of rim is fine, but it's best to have a rim close to what you use on your primary piece. When I taught privately, students used everything from wedding bands to washers. Just don't cut yourself..... 
If you use some type of visualizer, hang on to the rim, not the handle. If you use a skeletonized mouthpiece, don't put it in the horn. Again, hang on to the rim. Reason? All energy comes from within you, rather than from pressing hard, which can reverse the energy. Besides, pressing hard on an infinitely deep cup with a hole size in excess of 5/8" is a fool's errand.....
Never forget, the MF Protocol is exactly that--how Maynard played physically. I'm just a humble messenger..... As Maynard said often, it's all about joy, so please try to enjoy the process of protocol implementation. Thanks for your comments. Hope you are all well.... Peace....
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:18 am Post subject: |
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For those of you who have watched the video:
I have been playing the rim in the way Lynn instructs. Was talking to him online too about it. I am finding that there are muscles to be used that usually aren't used in the embouchure to play this way and I believe they have to be built up. Lynn asked if I was using pressure and I told him I wasn't. I don't even see how I could use pressure if I hold the rim the way Lynn is holding it. There just doesn't seem to be a way to use pressure this way. So I feel the new muscles that come into play seem to need some time through playing and resting on the rim to build up somewhat. I can definitely feel myself using more of the musculature down in the ab area to play this way and understand why he talks about this taking a lot of work off the chops.
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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RandyTX
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| McVouty wrote: | | I just cut the rim off a plastic mouthpiece (Kelly 3C) with a hacksaw and that works just fine. Probably cheaper than sourcing a rim. |
<lightbulb>
Excellent idea.
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Yeah - brilliant idea - probably saved a lot of cats doing this a good amt of $$. Those Kellys are cheap. I think they have a 13a4a screamer too.
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Ok, this is really good info. Yesterday, I started early practicing on my new MF jet-tone modified piece I got from Derek at Legends mouthpieces and even played it on my gig. This one is a smaller diameter than the original MF jet-tone and a tighter throat (standard 27). I was already playing very small diameter pieces with a modified V cup, but this is the straight V type which Lynn was recommending. I notice this morning it is definitely easier to play the rim - so I think this design really does promote this whole embouchure very well. Derek has several models based on the MF design - I like this one the best because I didn't want to go to a bigger throat and I already like very small diameter pieces which are smaller than the original pieces that MF played - which are usually measured around .630. So if you are practicing Lynn's protocol, I am finding the actual MF design makes a big difference for me. Check out the different ones Derek has at legendsmpc.com I think he has at least 6 different models based on the MF design in different diameters, etc. Best, Lex
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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MF Fan
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Posts: 397
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| GrahamB wrote: | Where on earth can I buy just a rim from?
Having trouble finding one, and I'd like one the same size as my Sop Cornet mouthpiece! (i think 16.5mm) |
I went to my collection of unused pieces and found an old Bach 12C, which the Kanstul Comparator confirmed was close to the same rim diameter and shape as the Ratzenberg Jettone 2B I play with. I put it in a vise and cut the rim off with a air powered cutting tool. I then used a step drill to bore out the cup area from the backside, and now all that is left is the rim. It came out perfectly! I've heard others suggest buying one of the Kelly Lexan models to do the same, which would be easier and less expensive to work with then an actual brass mouthpiece. If you have the tools though, using an actual brass mouthpiece isn't hard to do. Took 20 minutes start to finish.
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MF Fan
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Lynn,
What is happening physically when you practice on the rim that results in the benefits that transfer to the trumpet? What should a rim newbie focus on when beginning to utilize a rim as a practice aid? I assume getting a strong vibration across the entire width is basically it. Any particular routines or types of exercises you'd recommend? Should you be trying to extend your range each session? How long per session do you recommend someone spend on the rim per day?
BTW, I've seen the video, and have definitely seen immediate benefits. My chops are no longer the weak link, its my abs that primarily give out first, followed by the corners. The most immediate change has been that my sound has opened up considerably. My range above the staff is just as fat as the middle register, and it's much louder. I'll post a thorough review of my experience once I'm further into it. I have a Patrick MF1 on order so I can start that aspect of the protocol as well.
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GrahamB
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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What would be a good daily rim exercise to add into my practice sessions?
I found myself a screw-rim at about the right diameter!
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Schilke Soprano Cornet, Beryllium Bell
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lynn9544
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Joined: 05 Mar 2015
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: Rimpet |
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| MF Fan wrote: | Lynn,
What is happening physically when you practice on the rim that results in the benefits that transfer to the trumpet? What should a rim newbie focus on when beginning to utilize a rim as a practice aid? I assume getting a strong vibration across the entire width is basically it. Any particular routines or types of exercises you'd recommend? Should you be trying to extend your range each session? How long per session do you recommend someone spend on the rim per day?
BTW, I've seen the video, and have definitely seen immediate benefits. My chops are no longer the weak link, its my abs that primarily give out first, followed by the corners. The most immediate change has been that my sound has opened up considerably. My range above the staff is just as fat as the middle register, and it's much louder. I'll post a thorough review of my experience once I'm further into it. I have a Patrick MF1 on order so I can start that aspect of the protocol as well. |
Thank you to all who have rented "Got High Notes?". It wouldn't be fair to you, the renters, if I answered questions publicly, but I will try to answer a few questions from the renters privately. However, if you play the video over and over, your questions will likely answer themselves. The video is designed to metabolize my original insights/observations of the master, Maynard Ferguson, with very little effort on your part, excepting the need for an open mind and the ability to spend some time experimenting outside your comfort zone. The concepts of the adaptive algorithm are best implemented in the absence of thought, simply doing what is described in the video. Can you let go of all that doesn't serve you and embrace something that actually does serve you?
I say this kindly, but I am amused by the many times huge list of horns, mouthpieces, etc, at the end of posts. Do you believe that the hardware is going to give you the results you seek? I once made several hundred thousand dollars on a $225 Getzen Eterna. It wasn't/isn't a particularly good horn, but I gave it the appropriate input--the MF Protocol. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have a good horn. Still, the bulk of our capabilities comes from within. Changing your hardware may give you incremental improvements, if you're lucky, while changing your approach can provide you with a radical transformation.
When I taught privately, my favorite question to ask students was, How long have you had your current range? Answers were usually in the range of years to decades. My response--Isn't it time to try something new?
Hope you are all well.....
Peace,
Lynn
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oxleyk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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What I find is that when I place the rim in the same spot I place the mouthpiece my lips don't buzz -- only air. If I move the rim slightly to the right they do. I've never determined if this is relevant.
Kent |
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ljazztrm
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Joined: 03 Dec 2001
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Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | However, if you play the video over and over, your questions will likely answer themselves. The video is designed to metabolize my original insights/observations of the master, Maynard Ferguson, with very little effort on your part, excepting the need for an open mind and the ability to spend some time experimenting outside your comfort zone. The concepts of the adaptive algorithm are best implemented in the absence of thought, simply doing what is described in the video. Can you let go of all that doesn't serve you and embrace something that actually does serve you? |
+1! This is my current experience.
| Quote: | | Do you believe that the hardware is going to give you the results you seek? |
One thing for me personally Lynn - my experience is that playing on the MF design mouthpiece makes the rim buzzing much easier and more natural. Like this design of mouthpiece is 'teaching' my playing mechanism to function this way and teaching it to follow the protocol with the rim.
| Quote: | | I once made several hundred thousand dollars on a $225 Getzen Eterna. It wasn't/isn't a particularly good horn, but I gave it the appropriate input--the MF Protocol. |
Yeah, I have a $275 Getzen Capri from the 70's or 80's - Just a basic open blowing horn with outstanding valves and construction - if I wanted to, I could make my whole living with this horn. And I feel I could say the same for the old student model Holton Collegiates from the 50's - 70's. Best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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Harry Hilgers
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Joined: 16 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| GrahamB wrote: | Where on earth can I buy just a rim from?
Having trouble finding one, and I'd like one the same size as my Sop Cornet mouthpiece! (i think 16.5mm) |
I just ordered the Xpiece and Reversible rim from Lynn (.... hey, this rimes ....  ) I can't wait to get my hands, I mean my chops, on them ......
.... but what to do in the mean time????????????
.... hmmmmmmm ......... I think I got it ........I can either use one of my Kanstul tops or ........ what I just found in my plumbing parts box .......
https://www.google.com/search?q=faucet+screen&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=592&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiy4LOV0qvPAhXD2SYKHRgoDF0Q_AUIBygC#imgrc=3T5-HzxAgzodWM%3A
I call it the faucetrimpet ..... get it? .... get it?......
... just take out all the guts ........ of course you could leave the screen in .... it would catch the pizza remnants ......
Anyway, all kidding aside, I listened to the different posted videos of Lynn's demonstration of his tools and I cant wait to start using them.
So thank you Lynn and thank you Maynard ........... you are for sure the grand masters of the clarino range ...... |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| oxleyk wrote: | What I find is that when I place the rim in the same spot I place the mouthpiece my lips don't buzz -- only air. If I move the rim slightly to the right they do. I've never determined if this is relevant.
Kent |
The totality of the factors is different with just the rim. Back-pressure of the mp and horn, the sound physics involving the horn and your body, almost surely the way pressure gets applied when you're playing vs. holding the rim against your lips with your fingers, probably not doing the exact same things with your teeth/jaw/tongue/throat as when you're playing the horn.
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