Vincent BACH 1 popularity issue

[chrisrichardson]

The 1 seems like such a tough guy mouthpiece, and will give a big fat sound. Guess what? Almost all people that use a 1 have crap for a high range. Also good luck on a pops concert. It can be right for some people with huge lips, but most people will be more effective with a smaller mouthpiece.

[GordonH]

Most people I knew who have played on similarly large mouthpieces have been professionals doing a lot of playing in orchestras and they have generally used a smaller mouthpiece for higher playing.

Mind you its all relative. The Bach 1 looks tiny beside the Wick 2 cornet mouthpiece or the Schilke 20d2d.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Louise Finch]

[Kamyar]

[Louise Finch]

[John Mohan]

[trpt2]

Thanks John,
You are absolutely correct.
(And I was one of the "complainers" to Bach in the early/mid 70' s).
Lloyd Fillio (sp ?)- head of the factory at the time, told me of the tooling change.

Bob Earley

[Kamyar]

Hi Lou,


Some players do, but In my opinion, players generally have greater flexibility and easier articulations with a narrower rounder rim, but at the expense of the narrower rounder rim having a smaller surface area in contact with the lips, which can decrease endurance.

Exactly,Decreased endurance is the issue I face it now.

Couldn't I fade out this issue by practice?

BACH 1C which is the closest to BACH 1 for me,I like it's cup diameter and volume but as you mentioned because of flatter and bigger rim than BACH 1,in my opinion, sounds are more stable but I feel I'm in prison and can't move as much as I like.It fixes my lips snd does not let my lips to move easily.


I am wondering whether you would find the Bach 1 1/2C a better compromise. The rim is not as flat as a 3C in my opinion, and the cup is a little wider and deeper. The Bach 1 1/4C has a rim more like the 7C, but in my opinion, it is a little big for an all-around mouthpiece, and the 1 1/2C would be a better choice.[/b]

It's possible to check BACH 1 1/2, I will try.

Thank you a lot,

Regards,

Kamyar

[crzytptman]

Yeah well, you're a beginner. I sincerely doubt that you can determine how the nuances of rim contour, diameter, cup depth and shape, and backbore have effect on your embouchure and your performance.

Spend your money on a good teacher, and let that teacher help you find a suitable mpc for you to start with. You won't need a change for years.
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)

[Irving]

John, It is a supposition on my part knowing that Vacchiano played a very large mouthpiece with a thin rim. He was actively playing at the time, and used Bach equipment. Do I know for a fact that Bach made the (new) 1 as a signature piece for Vacchiano? No I don't. I do know that he used a thin rim with an extra large cup though. I find it hard to believe that Bach decided to just change the tooling for no reason, or even worse, that it was some sort of mistake. I have heard Bach representatives giving their reasons for certain changes, and when they make no sense, then it seems like they were trying to hide the truth for some reason. "A tooling mistake" (that could have been rectified) sounds like BS to me.

Just to add, that no manufacturer at the time made the kind of rim that Vacchiano used. Until Bach changed the way the 1 was made. Vacchiano either had to change his rims himself, or go down to Giardinelli or Peppy, and they would do it. Back then, you could walk into Giardinelli's, give him your mouthpiece, and tell him to change the rim to a "Vacchiano rim". He would then thin out the rim, and round it out as well so that it didn't have a sharp inner edge. Which is the same sort of rim the Bach 1 has.

[Louise Finch]

[Kamyar]

[Louise Finch]

Hi Kamyar

I haven't played either the 1X or 1C, so can only compare them on the Kanstul comparator, which you have already done.

In my opinion, both are too big for an all-around mouthpiece for a new player, and are probably better suited to an orchestra player, playing for many hours a day.

As I said previously, I can only recommend a few lessons from a good teacher, who after seeing and hearing you play, can help you find a mouthpiece that you can develop well on, and use for many years to come.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[Richt]

Just seen this thread which may be cold, but I thought Id chip in for what it's worth....
I started playing with a Bach 1 mouthpiece when I was about 9 years old. I also my trumpet teacher, who was bandmaster of Chalk Farm Salvo Band for something broader and deeper. I went through my entire trumpet career to date using this for my Bb and anything else feels restrictive. I'm not a professional, but have played first trumpet in a range of amateur wind bands, orchestras and ensembles. My range is up to top Eb with it (Haydn tpt concerto 1st mvt) and I love the lyrical sound I think I can make. I guess I'm not a screamer but this is high enough for most scrnarios

I've got a Stormvi Piccolo tpt which I play with their "Old Style" 7E cornet mouthpiece which I also use on the Soprano Cornet I play in our local Brass Band. This seems to work better with the pressure from the narrow bore and is less harsh than a similar sized tpt mouthpiece.

Each to your own I guess, but never be afraid to try something different and good luck to you if it works!!
_________________
Butterflies in the belly,
Give it some wellie!!

[Rhondo]

Tacking on to this old thread-

I just received a new (current) version Bach 1 1/2 mouthpiece that is very close to my Bach Corp. 5C - so close that I haven’t yet determined exactly what the difference is. I can’t detect a difference in diameter when placing my thumb in the cups, and I’ll have to test more later to see just what difference there is if any in playing.

In contrast, there was an immediate perceptible difference from my Corp. 5C when I tried a current version 5C. The current was clearly smaller and not as comfortable to me as the Corp. version… I have two Corp. 5C mouthpieces that are in practice identical. I also have a Corp. 5C for flugelhorn, and while of course deeper, the feel is the same on my lips as the trumpet Corp. 5C.

My take is it is important to take into consideration in what era Bach mouthpieces were manufactured, and at least re Corp versions vs current, you can probably know what to expect.

[Louise Finch]

[Rhondo]

So the Bach Artisan mouthpieces are different than the ‘cherry’ mouthpiece production that Vincent Bach set aside?

Seems odd.

[Louise Finch]

[Louise Finch]

It probably lol says so in here:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113292
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[Louise Finch]

From the first page, it appears that they may just have a different blank. When I’m not reading tiny print on my phone, I’ll have a good read on the thread I linked to.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs