Big mistake! Warren is one of the most exciting and creative high brass players working these days. Everything he plays inspires me to practice more. His improvisations are very intelligent.
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:46 am Post subject:
DrBones wrote:
[quote="Louise Finch"
"I haven't listened to Warren Vache"
Lou
Big mistake! Warren is one of the most exciting and creative high brass players working these days. Everything he plays inspires me to practice more. His improvisations are very intelligent.[/quote]
I am seeing him play next weekend in Edinburgh! _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:51 am Post subject:
Warren is a 'jazz chameleon' one of the best ever - period.
I agree about that clip. With the first mouthpiece Trent doesn't get what I would consider an exceptionally 'dark' sound. Just a beautiful jazz sound. Trent's clips have been invaluable to me in deciding about buying different trumpets over the last several years. Just read my most recent review on the Austin Custom Brass site about my Manchester pocket!
Although I sold a cornet to Mike Sailors a couple of years ago or so, I never checked out his playing. I grew up with traditional jazz and all those cats, Louie, Roy, Bix, Bunny, Bobby, Jumbo, Wild Bill, Warren, etc..as my dad collected records since before I was born - so I've been listening since the womb;-) To hear it played so well by someone with such very solid chops is such a treat - so, now, Sailors has a new fan! As far as the Besson 2-20 goes - I got such a great deal used ($200!) online, that I can't go wrong. Whether it's dark enough for me or not, we will see - but I know I will have a solid axe - even if just to put in my trunk as an emergency backup.
And, great news, that cat on the TH marketplace got back to me and offered me a deal I couldn't refuse on the Stomvi master Titanium cornet - so, in the next coming weeks I will be posting my experiences. Thanks to everyone for all the input! All the very best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:51 am Post subject:
Thanks for the compliments, cats. It means a lot.
This is a good discussion. To me, dark is just the absence of brilliance in the tone. The sound I naturally get is pretty strident (if you've ever heard me play the big horn, you could certainly attest). That's why I prefer the cornet. I can play the equipment I like to play, which is fairly small compared to what most people play, but I can still get a round sound.
I've never felt comfortable on anything smaller than a 5c. I have big lips too. This has never made sense to me, but it is what it is.
Truth be told, I only play my big horn when I'm playing lead or in the section. There's just something different about the blow and the "feel" of a cornet that lends itself better to the way I like to play. _________________ www.mikesailors.com
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:41 am Post subject:
GordonH wrote:
The traditional (i.e. pre 1970's) sound of brass band cornets is something I have tried to analyse from listening to recordings and playing on old instruments and mouthpieces. What it seems to be is a level of resistance which prevents all of the air getting straight into the tubing immediately, leading to additional compression. On very old cornets this is caused by the tuning extension piece which creates a lump in the pipe. In newer instruments this comes down to the mouthpiece. Funnel shaped mouthpieces tend to sound flugely. Ones with an S shaped profile and a bit more room at the bottom of the cup have that distinctive sound. Ishuld do some recordings to demonstrate this on vintage and modern instruments.
Hi GordonH
Although not my thread, I guess that you were responding to my post above. Thanks very much for sharing your opinion on how instrument/mouthpiece affects a brass band cornet tone. If you wouldn't mind posting some recordings, that would be great. However, although it is obviously none of my business where posters post, this thread obviously isn't about brass band cornet sounds, but a dark cornet sound with a shallower cup, so maybe we should start another thread about the change in brass band cornet sounds over time. I apologise to the OP for any tangent which I have taken this thread off in, although it appears to now be back on track.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 am Post subject:
DrBones wrote:
[quote="Louise Finch"
"I haven't listened to Warren Vache"
Lou
Big mistake! Warren is one of the most exciting and creative high brass players working these days. Everything he plays inspires me to practice more. His improvisations are very intelligent.[/quote]
Hi
I'll have to check him out, thanks.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:43 am Post subject: Conn 12a cornet
Hi folks. I just wanted to contribute to this discussion a bit of info about the Conn 12a that I have. It is certainly a cornet that belongs on the "dark even with a shallower mouthpiece" list.
I did my best to record a demo using a Bach 3C (shallowest cornet mouthpiece I have), a vintage Conn 4 short shank (about as deep as a Bach 3C cup but kinda V shaped), and a Curry 3TC mouthpiece (deeper, for comparison).
But this was a recorded on an iPhone 6, so it doesn't really do it justice. Nevertheless, I hope this is beneficial to someone...
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:52 am Post subject:
Thanks for the nice clip ja:-) Yeah, when I do the obvious 'eyes closed test' I would say I would probably call 'cornet' and not 'trumpet' when hearing it - but that may be due partially to the old style Bixie lick you're playing which I usually associate with the cornet. Appreciate the helpful clip..thanks! Best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:08 am Post subject: Lawler and Conn 12a
I failed to include my Lawler cornet in the video I posted yesterday, so I made another video. This time I play three different horns, all with the Bach 3c.
You can hear the differences in the tone quality, but again the iPhone recording does not do it justice. The differences are greater in person. But I hope this contributes to the discussion anyway.
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:27 am Post subject:
Hey, nice ja - playing the trumpet as a comparison really puts things in perspective. As I expected, imo, the Lawler has the darkest and most complex sound.. thanks for posting! Best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:52 am Post subject:
Well I got both the 2-20 and the Stomvi! Haven't had too much time to work with them yet. The Besson is a wonderful instrument definitely on the darker side of the spectrum for me and an amazing value as these seem to all be under $400-$500 dollars.
The Stomvi is a different animal entirely. I feel it is the nicest instrument I've ever owned - whether trumpet, cornet, or flugel. It blows exceptionally dark and really does do what I was hoping with my shallow Groovin High MF mouthpiece partially screwed into a cornet backbore. Even when I screw it all the way in, it remains fairly dark - at least considering what I am using. So I can corroborate the opinion of some others who have wrote about this specific cornet. It does seem to be a 'step above' all the other top cornets out there. So this will definitely be my main jazz axe.
I'm out of town most of this week, but will try to post a clip next week illustrating these horns. All the very best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:30 am Post subject:
Hey cats - Lex here. I haven't forgotten about putting a clip up. I'm back in town more and one of my jazz camps are ending next week so will probably put a clip up of my morning meditation where I just play free for an hour while meditating and will switch back from the Besson 2-20 to the Stomvi. I should have my new Roger Ingram Vintage MF piece by the time I do it - I ordered a 24 cornet backbore with that set up as I got a custom 2 piece design with the Ingram MF so I can do my 'jazz trick' unscrewing the backbore. I can tell you the Stomvi is a phenomenon with how dark I can get on the shallow pieces.. The Besson 2-20 is an amazing instrument for the price, but nothing comes close to the Stomvi - and that's from any instrument I've owned. Heading out to a recording session with it in about an hour. Best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:19 am Post subject:
I don't know cats - just stopped home here and doing some practicing and trying to record but getting a lag - let's see if any of this comes over. This is the Stomvi Master Ti with a shallow Candoli top partially screwed into an ACB cornet backbore. Not sure how the sound quality is as I got fans and AC blowing on me - hey I got a gig later and don't want to sweat!
_________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
_________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:20 am Post subject:
Oh c'mon!
https://youtu.be/4LLeIqJhbqQ[/code] _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:21 am Post subject:
Don't know why I can't get it to embed..sorry cats... seems to work if I click on the link. best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:22 am Post subject:
ACk - it's all cut-up.. like breaks in the recording.. didn't record it like that.. maybe if I close other programs.. am on an iMac with photo booth.. Will try to do something better... _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:44 am Post subject:
THANKS MAN! Let me try w the Besson 2-20. Haven't been playing this one much and tweaking w the backbore.. just popped a 12* in there - partially unscrewed of course.
_________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
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As far as the Besson 2-20 goes - I got such a great deal used ($200!) online, that I can't go wrong. Whether it's dark enough for me or not, we will see - but I know I will have a solid axe - even if just to put in my trunk as an emergency backup.
