Advice on cornet please

_gmdean · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:34 am Post subject:

Help please

I am a returning player. I am playing mainly trumpet in swing/wind bands but need a cornet for one of the bands. I play a bach strad 37 with schilke 9 mp. I want a good pro quality cornet and will be looking for a used one. I understand that generally cornets don't carry through a wind band and that brass band models might not project enough in this playing situation. So any advice about models to look out for would be most welcome.

There are a few on ebay that look interesting: and Olds studio (seems possably overpriced) a KING MASTER. I know Olds made good trumpets I don't know much about King at all. I will also have to pay import on anything from the USA so don't want to get something that turns out not to meet the need to play loud in a wind band.

Olds:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2567857552&category=41396

King
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2568380733&category=41396
I will be visiting a local shop but the guy who runs it is more a brass band specialist.

Any help suggestions greatfully received.
Thanks
Mark

jhatpro · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:47 am Post subject:

If I didn't already have one, I'd go for the King at the Buy It Now price of $225 in an instant. My King Master is a great horn. Plays easily with a wonderful tone. Wild Bill Davidson, among others, played a Master.

The Olds Studio is also a nice horn but, you're right, it's priced a little high. (Although I've heard the Alaska Brass folks do nice work.)

I have an Olds Super cornet that also plays very well. I've played about a dozen different Olds horns and never encountered a bad one.

Still, of the two you specify, I'd go for the King.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

_PhilPicc · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:34 am Post subject:

I agree with Jim on the King Master. They were among the best. I have played many King instruments and they have all been fine horns. I am talking pre-1960.

Good luck and enjoy whichever cornet you get,
Phil
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

OldKid · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 135

Given the fact that the Olds was recently overhauled I wouldn't call it over priced given what an overhaul cost these days. I also think the Olds has a unique look. The King on the other hand is a good buy and will definately do the job. I don't think you'll get burned on either horn.
_________________
Bach 181 Strad Cornet B1.5B
YAMAHA Xeno 16C4 GP
Getzen 3850 Cornet YAM 16E
King (early 50's) Super 20 B1.5C
Pocket Max B1.5C
Arban's

jhatpro · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:29 am Post subject:

Regarding the $470 price on the Olds, I would agree with Oldkid if the valves were replated. Not sure what "reworked" means in this instance. Normally, an overhaul that includes dent removal, replating of valves, relacquering or replating of the rest of the horn, plus new softs parts, would be around $750-$850 in the Chicago area, with valve replating accounting for about $350 of that cost.

_________________
Jim Hatfield/Chicago Area
"It felt like God was playing my horn and I was just listening." Illinois Jacquet, on being in the groove

[ This Message was edited by: jhatpro on 2003-10-28 11:31 ]

jhatpro · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:47 am Post subject:

I was curious about the term "reworked," so I emailed Alaska Brass and was informed that "...the valves came in top condition. We simply
polished the actual valve pistons and internally cleaned the valve casings. They are very smooth and always give a full, instant return after depressing them. In the past 2 years or so, we always replate valves if there is any reason
to do so, and there was not in this instrument."
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

bgwbold · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:48 am Post subject:

This is a pretty normal looking horn, for Alaska Brass. However, that is still a lot of money for an Olds Studio. It would not be worth a premium price to me, but as earlier posters said, if you bought a real nice horn and had it overhauled, you could easily have 500 - 600 in it, but you would be a long time ever getting your money out of it.

Mike

bdev · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:50 pm Post subject:

Check out this Olds Studio Cornet.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2567725990&category=16214

jhatpro · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:14 pm Post subject:

That last item is a great buy! I had an Olds Studio trumpet from the same era, also nickel plated. Thing blew a ton! I sold it for what I paid for it ($225) to a friend of mine, an ex-cop who wanted to learn to play trumpet and called me the next day and said, "Jim, that book you got me to go with the horn was pretty interesting for a couple of pages but after that it was just notes...."

So far as I know, he hasn't touched the horn since.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

rich · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:40 pm Post subject:

Jim.. how would you describe the tone of the King Master... seems like I read on another post.. might have been yours... that the King Master blew bright. Is that how you would describe it??

jhatpro · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject:

Yes, quite bright. That's what makes it a great Dixie horn -- it cuts through the ensemble. It really sounds more like a trumpet than a cornet. However, you can darken the sound considerably with the right mouthpiece. The Curry VC (Vintage Cup) does that. I've heard the Sparx will, too.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

_gmdean · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:03 am Post subject:

Thanks for all the comments and advice, very helpful. I have heard Alaska do super work too and I'd guess you could also view their olds as a new horn, thnks too for the link to the other and for the info about the King. As it turns out I will be refraining from pressing the buy now buttons, unless I get a serious attack of e-bayitis. Partly because I have to pay 17.5% import duty which can really screw up a good deal but mainly because I visited my local shop and ended up buying a new horn. Gerry had a good selection of Boosy, B&S and Bessons, new and second hand but non really did it for me. I tried a selection of mp from the "parts bin" with all the horns. I tried a Holton (collegate?) which was way too much trumpet, I can get darker sound from my Strad, and that was with a wicks mp that was so deep you could almost store the horn in it. Next off the list was a Blessing copy of a 1800's French Besson, that had a wonderful "old" cornet sound, but the intonation was not good, I've never played a horn where the mid stave C was flat. Gerry also had an old King of about the same age as the one in the advert, it wasn't the Master, next model down I think. That did play nicely as Jim says very trumpet like but also able to go dark with a Wick 3.
But at the end of the day one horn stood out and I bought a new Antoine Courtois Chambord II - 106R, I got a good discount as it is "shop soiled" but only if you have a magnifying glass and know where to look. This horn stood out because it is so versitile. The supplied mp (1 1/2C) give's a nice warm mellow typical UK brass band sound but you can make it darker by easing off a bit or really light the horn up to the trumpet like sound of the King. A wick 3 takes the horn into seriously mellow and dark, dare I say fugel like? and with a benge 7C you could play Latin. Slotting and intonation are good, valve action great. Build is substantial, it's a heavy horn, if I want to find fault I'd say the top and bottom valve covers seem a bit lightweight compared to the build of the rest of the horn. You also seem to be able to adjust the focus of the sound. Think I'm in love here. I will report back further once I've payed in the bands. Only negative on the horizon is that Gerry tells me he is going to be an agent for eclipse once they have enough horns to stock so I have a nasty feeling my Strad might be put to a serious test soon

Thanks again for the help and advice your comments helped.
Mark