Cornet Mouthpiece Advice

valvepimp · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:11 am Post subject:

I'd like to acquire a cornet mouthpiece that will produce a darker sound than the Bach 1c I am currently using does. The cornet I am currently playing on is a beat up Olds Ambassador which is in good playing condition. The sound it gets is quite good with my 1c - I'd describe is as unmistakably cornet-like, no one with a trained ear would confuse it with a trumpet. And yet I would like it to be darker still, but I would prefer that its sound not be confused with a flugelhorn. So what I want is a very dark sound without being morbidly dark.

I have heard about both the Sparx and Curry mouthpieces for cornet, and eventually when I buy a pro cornet (currently shopping around for one) I will probably shell out the $100 plus for the Sparx piece. I understand that the Curry stock piece (non custom, that is) can be had for around half that amount. I'm game to spend $60 or so at the moment, but I'd hate to shell out more for the piece than for the horn, which is why I'll wait for the pro horn to purchase the Sparx.

So which stock Curry piece should I go for to produce a very dark, but not over-the-top dark sound? Remember, it should be roughly comparable to a Bach 1c in rim size, but I am willing to go with virtually any cup size and shape that will produce the sound I am after.

Is it best to order a stock piece direct from Curry, or should I drop by Charles Colin (his authorized dealer in NYC)? Which would be cheaper? I guess I could try one out in person at Colin, so the nod might go to them.
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Mr. Stomvi · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062

Seeing as Kanstul is knocking off most of the high end mpcs. (i.e. Monette, Gr, etc.), I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't knocked off the Sparx models or will soon. Might give them a call.

Seth Moore
Sparx # 4, and # 4B owner
_________________
"He has Van Gogh's ear for music."

Billy Wilder

pfrank · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:24 am Post subject:

The Curry DC is deep w/ a relaxed throat entry, 25 bore, but it's got some high end freqencies. It's a big sound on a light cornet and would be plenty dark on an Ambasador. Curry's rims are based on Mt Vernon Bachs, so the 1 might do ya. A Wick 2B might be a possibility too. Or the Laskey 85DB. (I don't know how much $ they are now, but it's a great cornet mp) Curry takes no orders from his web-site. You have to get one through a store that carries Curries. Osman sells stock Curries for abt $46. The special short trumpet shanks are around $70.

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2003-11-03 09:24 ]

valvepimp · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:45 am Post subject:

Thanks, Mr. Stomvi, maybe I'll see what Kanstul has in the way of a knockoff. I was wanting to check out one of their Monette trumpet knockoff pieces, anyway. Pfrank - can you elaborate on what exactly you mean by "high end frequencies"? Especially since you prefaced it with "but" which may be regarded as somewhat of a caveat, or maybe you didn't mean it that way at all.
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pfrank · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:58 am Post subject:

You wrote this: "a very dark, but not over-the-top dark sound"... well, the mix of frequencies makes a characteristic sound, and there have to be some high end frequencies to cut through, to not be over-the-top-dark. My darkest mp is a Wick 4 and my brightest, a Stork 5C. The Curry DC is somewhere in the middle of those two, but more to the dark side. If pushed, it can sound bright, but not "sizzling" like a trumpet mp, but still a clasical robust sound. All the Wicks are darker sounding, the Curry VC is darker.

So I ment to say "it's got some high end freqencies" even though it's deep, and has a relaxed throat entry, and a 25 throat, all things that darken the sound versus a Bach C cup and stock throat/bb.

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2003-11-03 13:42 ]

valvepimp · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:15 am Post subject:

Thanks pfrank, I read you loud and clear now. Would you say that your Wick piece pushes the envelope into flugelhorn territory, or would you characterize it as ultra dark though unmistakably cornet?

On another matter, I had asked you a question a couple weeks back re: your Olds Studio cornet. You never replied, and I'll bet you just didn't see it, as your replies are usually thoughtful and forthcoming. You can find the post here if you'd care to answer:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=13404&forum=27&12
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max2guy · New Member Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 1

Flip Oakes has great mouthpieces in Bach sizes. I use his 10.5 daily daily on both trumpet and cornet. His old timer cornet mpc is especially neat.

pfrank · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:41 am Post subject:

I was away that week...gigs in Ottawa and Boston, so I took the week off from the day job and don't live with a computer. I'll reply to that question on it's own thread.
The Wick B size isn't completely V shaped, there is a bit of a bowel to them. The 2B is a big mp, though, and I would call the tone more trombone like than flug, especially if you blow low notes loud. I've never tried a Wick 2, (I know my limits) but the 4 and 4 1/2 (like the 4 but with a smaller backbore and throat, easier to play), the ones with no "B", are very V shaped, and have a huge throat and bb, but again not as deep as the usual flug mp. I've recorded with the 4, and it makes a very "pure" sound (like a sine wave--like a flute) in the upper register. It's great when there isn't allot of competition (other instruments in the same register). I love when you can't tell if it's a flute or a cornet or a flug...
To me, a flug sounds different than a cornet no matter the mp. It has a different set of mid-range frequencies. Sounds tubbier...

sparxII · Veteran Member Joined: 09 Oct 2002 Posts: 216

Mr. Stomvi,

I would like to thank you for thinking so highly of the Sparx Cornet Mouthpiece to suggest that Mr. Kanstul would do a copy of it's design. As in other cases, a copy is just a copy and well never match the original design in sound or performance. Granted there may be some similar characteristics, no argument there, but as with every other highley designed piece of equipment, no matter what the modality, the original does set itself apart from the copies.

Once again, I thank you for your observation and pleased that you find my mouthpiece worthy of being copied by a major trumpet designer.

Regards,
Ted Sparks

Mr. Stomvi · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062

Ted - I really do think very highly of your mouthpieces. As I mentioned above I have two (# 4 and 4B "soloist") and couldn't be happier. I will probably pick up your super deep one next. I have a rack of Wicks that I am slowly cleaning out and am trying to convert our BBB cornet section to your units. I think I have about 2 or 3 folks converted so far. I'm also getting ready to pick up a new GR 64 P-M picc piece as soon as I move my 65 P-M which I put on eBay today.

As far as Kanstul knocking off everybodies mpc design - Doesn't surprise me a bit especially with the high end mpcs. Surprised it hasn't happened a long while ago. I suppose that's the business of non patentable products. Nothing new there. The reports on Kanstul's Monette Prana ($ 350++) and GR ($ 110) knockoffs ($ 50) have been nothing but positive. Doesn't surprise me as the machine work is really pretty basic and straight forward (I say that having spent 20 years in the photo engineering business). No rocket science here. As your GR produced units are retailing for $ 110 and the Kanstul copies are retailing for approx. $ 50 perhaps you might want to think about switching vendors and have Kanstul mfg. them for you. I'll be your first new customer

How about a new Sparx mpc set or kit(1-3 different backbores and 3 cups with 3 different depths) ???? Might as well jump on it before Kanstul

Just some thoughts.

Good luck

Seth Moore
_________________
"He has Van Gogh's ear for music."

Billy Wilder

Bruce Lee · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:32 am Post subject:

For the record, I would like to clarify that the GR mouthpieces produced by Kanstul are NOT copies of GR Technologies mouthpieces.

Kanstul's GR mouthpieces are copies of Giardinelli mouthpieces.

If you want a GR Technologies mouthpiece, make sure that you get the real deal!

Thanks for reading!

Best always,
Bruce

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brucelee@northernbrass.com

Callet Trumpets
Lawler Trumpets
Eclipse Trumpets
Northern Brass Mpc's
GR Technologies Mpc's

www.northernbrass.com
(603) 421-9178

[ This Message was edited by: Bruce Lee on 2003-11-04 07:33 ]

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:10 am Post subject:

Valvepimp, if you ultimately want to buy a Sparx, I'd suggest that you go ahead and get it rather than wait until you purchase a new cornet. A great mouthpiece will increase the joy of playing your Olds just as much as it will a new horn. If you know that you're headed that way ultimately, then saving up a little extra now will cost less in the long haul.

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:10 am Post subject:

Valvepimp, if you ultimately want to buy a Sparx, I'd suggest that you go ahead and get it rather than wait until you purchase a new cornet. A great mouthpiece will increase the joy of playing your Olds just as much as it will a new horn. If you know that you're headed that way ultimately, then saving up a little extra now will cost less in the long haul.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Capt. Z · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:37 pm Post subject:

I also would recommend the Sparx mpc.

I have played Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces for more than 20 years and a drilled out Bach 5a for a few years on my cornet.

I liked the DW very much, but there is a new kid on the block, that has produced one of the world best cornet mouthpieces - Ted Sparks

http://www.sparxmusic.com/

Yes, the Bach is more like a trumpet mouthpiece. The DW has a very soft bite and fells much larger than it really is and can wear you out very quickly.

The new Sparx mouthpieces sound even better than the DW and have a better intonation, respond much better and are easier to play than the DW.
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'83 B&H Sovereign Cornet, MB w/Sparx 4; 4B
'78 Bach Strad. 65* w/GR 65S;MS;M;MX
'87 Getzen Eterna 900 LB in C w/GR 65S;MS;M;MX
'02 Benge Piccolo Trumpet Blackburn pipe w/Haefner 7H*P
I mainly play British Brass and Classical Music

trumpetmike · Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:07 am Post subject:

If you can - try some out

When I am playing cornet a lot I use a Denis Wick. I don't have any problems with the intonation and the sound is just what is needed in the traditional British Brass Band.
I have heard great things about the Sparx mouthpieces (from everyone on TH who say that these are better than the Wicks at everything!), but having not actually played one I can't comment.

If it is possible for you to try these mouthpieces out, choose the one that is best for you.

No two people will choose the same mouthpiece, that is what makes this sort of question difficult. The majority of the time I use my Warburton and can get a good brass band sound with that, I go on to the Wick if I am playing cornet exclusively for any period of time (I am a trumpeter first and foremost).

You may like the Wick, you may like the Sparx, you may find some other mouthpiece that works brilliantly for you.

If anybody says that you "should be playing brand x" take the advice with a large pinch of salt. Just because it works for them, it may not work for you.

Try everything and then choose what works for you.

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetmike on 2003-11-05 03:08 ]