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botahoratiu
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 390
Location: Medias, Romania
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 Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Here they are:
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Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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Mr.M
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Schilke looks like a younger brother 
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Connstellaion 38B, 67' Silver Flair |
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botahoratiu
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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Location: Medias, Romania
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Mr.M wrote: | | Schilke looks like a younger brother |
That would be because of the wider wrap of the Conn
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | Hermokiwi, you are right in all aspects.
As of sound, I think the Conn is more flexible.
By projection, I meant that I could here myself better over the band, but that is what you said... you are right, it's the feedback from the player.
By playability I meant it plays easier in all aspects.
Anyway, tge Schilke is a great horn which I am used to over years.
I am a bit confused |
I'm only speculating here but I think a lot of your confusion is due to an underlying feeling that (1) the Schilke should be a better horn than the Conn and/or (2) you are concerned that knowledgeable people might disagree with your choice if you choose the Conn.
I suggest you not worry about what other people think. Some of the differences between the horns you're noticing may have more to do with the way your mouthpiece coordinates with the horns than it has to do with the horns themselves. Or maybe not.
I've got a 1956 Conn 38B and a Schilke B1L in my horn collection. To me, the Conn produces a more dense sound than the Schilke. To me, playability in terms of response is about the same. I like the Schilke valves better. I prefer the Schilke first valve slide hook to the trigger on the Conn (although I admit I rarely use either).
You need to draw your own conclusions based on your own observations. I agree with the posters here who warn about a "honeymoon" period. What seems to be better today may not seem better later. So I agree that your decision should be made over a 30 to 45 day time period. If after that time period you still think the Conn is a better horn for you then the decision should be easy.
There's no reason to apologize for playing a Conn 38B. Lots of great and famous players played that model.
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trUMBet67
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Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 220
Location: Italia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: |
There's no reason to apologize for playing a Conn 38B. Lots of great and famous players played that model. |
Maynard Ferguson, Chet Baker, Cat Anderson...
Anyway, the 38b tone is different, more rich, more like a cornet. The 28a (the cornet) with a trumpet-like mouthpiece sound very similar.
I didn't play any trumpet with a tone like my 1956 38b's. Not to mention its look!! Well, I am lucky to own and play many old trumpets..
Enjoy the Connstellation!
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Umberto -
Bb: Taylor Chicago II Lite,Conn 38B,Olds Super,Olds Recording,Conn 22B (3),Bach 180 37 modified
C: SLB Callet New York
Flugel: Getzen Eterna 895S-T
Cornet: Getzen Eterna 800 LB Copper,Conn 28A,B&H Imperial
Piccolo: Schilke Herald Bb/A |
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JazzFluegel
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Joined: 16 Dec 2013
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Regarding the bore size, Finn, isn't there something about the design of the 38B regarding a tapering of the tubing as it goes through the horn that makes the actual, "functional" bore size, more than just a standard "small"?.... |
Myth. Debunked here in a thread years ago. Bore is constant 0.438.
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Been here before...
CDs BIG SWING, runnerduck.com/tempos_cd.htm
JAZZ WORSHIP, cdbaby.com
NOW, Keith Allen Pintar
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt Cornet
Kanstul 1525 FL
1962 Conn 9A Artist Coprion
1948 Conn NY Symphony 12B Coprion |
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botahoratiu
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 390
Location: Medias, Romania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| JazzFluegel wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Regarding the bore size, Finn, isn't there something about the design of the 38B regarding a tapering of the tubing as it goes through the horn that makes the actual, "functional" bore size, more than just a standard "small"?.... |
Myth. Debunked here in a thread years ago. Bore is constant 0.438. |
You mean it's not a step bore?
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american boy
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Joined: 22 Sep 2012
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Location: ny
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| I used to play in a big band playing Basie/Thad type material,and the guy playing lead(well known) was at the time playing a Constellation,and just killing it,but I mean a wide cover the band,Porcino/Snooky type cover the band..He later switched to a Schilke,and to me it didn't have that same wide thing,although it sounded fantastic,and maybe no different to the audience.Not sure of the Model Shilke he was playing. |
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botahoratiu
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Location: Medias, Romania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: |
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plankowner110
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3621
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Selling my Connstellation was a big mistake- huge mistake! 
I love the new Conn Vintage One, but wish I also had the Connstellation.
You have two outstanding trumpets- tough choice.
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C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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botahoratiu
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Location: Medias, Romania
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing I don't like the Connstellation about is the grip. It wants to be hold in a pistol grip for the third slide to move freely. And it has the trigger. But what a sound ...
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razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| JazzFluegel wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Regarding the bore size, Finn, isn't there something about the design of the 38B regarding a tapering of the tubing as it goes through the horn that makes the actual, "functional" bore size, more than just a standard "small"?.... |
Myth. Debunked here in a thread years ago. Bore is constant 0.438. |
Constant from where to where? The venturi is surely smaller than .438", and surely the bore is larger by the time it gets to the bell tail. Just because it is .438" at the 2nd valve doesn't mean much of anything.
Who here has played both an original, and Kanstul's copy of it? (What model is that, the Mariachi, right? 1000 or something?) Any speculation if he really copied the bore, based on how it plays in an A/B comparison?
Also, while the debate over finish having any effect on tone is pretty indicative that it does not, I think nickel plate is an exception to that. Even if Kanstul really duplicated the construction, if they didn't have it in nickel plate I bet it would still sound different. I would hope something like that couldn't possibly change the way it plays ... |
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JazzFluegel
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Joined: 16 Dec 2013
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="razeontherock"] | JazzFluegel wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Regarding the bore size, Finn, isn't there something about the design of the 38B regarding a tapering of the tubing as it goes through the horn that makes the actual, "functional" bore size, more than just a standard "small"?.... |
Myth. Debunked here in a thread years ago. Bore is constant 0.438. |
Constant from where to where? The venturi is surely smaller than .438", and surely the bore is larger by the time it gets to the bell tail. Just because it is .438" at the 2nd valve doesn't mean much of anything. end quote.
Before you criticize, how about doing the research first. The threadis titled, "CONN 38B, MYTHOLOGY?"
You're welcome,...
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Been here before...
CDs BIG SWING, runnerduck.com/tempos_cd.htm
JAZZ WORSHIP, cdbaby.com
NOW, Keith Allen Pintar
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt Cornet
Kanstul 1525 FL
1962 Conn 9A Artist Coprion
1948 Conn NY Symphony 12B Coprion |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9033
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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JazzFluegel, you might want to edit your post and add a [/etc. (or however one closes a quote). You cut off part of the text you were copying and it appears as if you are responding to my post, when you are responding to razeontherocks, instead. Might get your comment across more clearly.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
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botahoratiu
Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 390
Location: Medias, Romania
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: |
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How should I try them? Both of them in a comparison like A/B every time? Or just stick with the Conn for a while?
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Turkle
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Joined: 29 Apr 2008
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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My 38B was my main axe for years. It's still far and away the loudest horn I've ever played. I had guitar players asking me not to play so loud! Ha!
Anyway, the valves on mine were utterly terrible so I had to move on. But I still bring it out of the case from time to time to play it for a bit... No other horn has that distinct, rich sound. Just plain big as a house.
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plankowner110
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3621
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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What Conn said in its 1966 product catalogue:
Here is the large bore feel that top artists prefer. Produces six to 12 decibels more sound for the same player effort. The finest of mechanical superiority. First valve trigger. Micro-finish mouthpipe. Electro-D bell and mouthpipe. Undercut slides. Length 21½". Bell 5 1/8".
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C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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lipshurt
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 2642
Location: vista ca
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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The 38b bore is .438 from the end of the leadpipe to the bell tail. All the slides, ports, and pistons are .438. Not any kind of a step bore, or dual bore Etc. The Venturi is .330 and the leadpipe and receiver are electro formed out out pure copper in one piece. The thickness of the receiver is how thick the whole pipe was electro formed... THICK>...and then the pipe was turned down on the outside to make the receiver have the look of a separate piece. The big end was then also turned down to not be so thick and to fit into the upper outer tuning slide tube. The last 4 inches or so is all the same outer diameter from being turned down in the lathe. The tool and tool feed speed the unused made a pretty obvious set of ridges that they then buffed off. Pretty intense buffing required. The inside of the pipe is super smooth and perfectly flows the mandrel. This a totally different and actually pretty superior way to make a leadpipe
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botahoratiu
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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Location: Medias, Romania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: |
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I am beginning to lean toward the Conn as a keeper ... still comparing. Tough decision
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Do you like anything about the Schilke better than the Conn? Anything???
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