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maynard-46
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2002
Posts: 1845
Location: GEORGIA
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 Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: WW&BW QUESTION |
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Not sure if I'm posting this in the correct forum but since it has to do with a trumpet I figured I'd post here!!
About a year or so ago (I think) there was quite a long thread on TH regarding someone (s) having a problem with WW&BW customer service and I think it was regarding a trumpet that someone received from them that was clearly a used horn but WW&BW insisted on charging them full price. The thread was finally answered but a female manager of the Customer Service Dept. where she gave her name and extension phone number and she said anyone with a problem to contact here personally and she would make sure that the problem was resolved.
Since my computer skills are VERY limited I can't seem to find that thread!!!!
DOES ANYONE...OR...CAN ANYONE...FIND THAT THREAD...OR HAVE THE CONTACT INFO FOR THE LADY AT WW&BW???? IT WOULD BE A TREMENDOUS HELP TO ME!!!
Long story short...I received a Schilke B7 from them that plays great however it has MULTIPLE scratches on the bell...came in a dilapidated Schilke box...the horn was just floating around in the box and not secured down...had a sticker denoting they received it on 4?15/15...had wear on the valves...so, basically it was a USED horn...NOT brand new. When I complained they asked me for pictures. I, in turn, send them FOURTEEN (14) pictures showing all of the scratches, the box, etc., etc., etc.
BOTTOM LINE...they insulted me by offering me a $50 CREDIT with their store. I told them that that was absolutely ridiculous as they're trying to charge me a new price for a used horn!!! Also...on their site they selling USED/BLEMISHED Schilkes...WITH PICS...for $1849-$1949.00 and the B7 they sent me looks EXACTLY like the USED ones on their site...and looks EXACTLY like the pics I sent them of this trumpet!!
If any of you could help me with the info I requested earlier or have any suggestions/solutions, etc. I'd REALLY appreciate it. I'm fully aware that the bottom line is: if I like the horn THAT much I basically have no other option but to pay their NEW price for a USED horn....OR...return the horn and start looking AGAIN. I've been playing primarily Schilke trumpets since 1969 and I have to say that this particular B7 is definitely one of the BEST Schilkes I've ever played!!
I thank you all for listening to my rant and for any comments you may post!!
Butch
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oxleyk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4180
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Bigelow-Kid
Regular Member
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:08 am Post subject: WWBW |
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| I can help you for future transactions -- call Thompson Music in Omaha. They're a Schilke dealer and will give you a great deal, superb service, and try and scam you. |
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Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: Re: WWBW |
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| Bigelow-Kid wrote: | | I can help you for future transactions -- call Thompson Music in Omaha. They're a Schilke dealer and will give you a great deal, superb service, and try and scam you. |
I think you mean they won't scam you?
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NYC-player
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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WWBW is a virus that has infected and almost destroyed the music instrument sales industry.
They one by one knocked out the small businesses in America, and replaced them with a lousy internet company, big business, borderline monopoly.
The super conglomerate Guitar Center owns just about all of the band and orchestra business between, WWBW, Music 123, Music and Arts Centers 100+ locations, and warehouses, shipping hubs, and jerk off phone sales teams.
I understand manufacturers need to make a buck, and WWBW is I'm sure their biggest accounts, but I'd love nothing more than to see Guirar Center crumble and get back to small business basics. |
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RussellDDixon
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Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 832
Location: Mason, OH
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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I would remind them of this - 45 Day Satisfaction Guarantee
https://www.wwbw.com/Support-Center-Home-g27517t0.wwbw#TabtoAcc-Base4
"New Gear: If you’re not satisfied, neither are we. If for any reason you’re not completely satisfied with your purchase of a new item, simply return it in its original condition within 45 days of purchase (see exceptions below) and we’ll give you a full refund. It’s that simple."
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Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8336
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: WW&BW QUESTION |
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| maynard-46 wrote: | | (WWBW shenanigans) |
Sorry to hear about your experience.
I'm a little surprised that you ordered from WWBW after you've clearly read at least one - if not many - threads about their customer service. I've added my own experiences - less expensive than yours - in previous threads. This sort of thing is not an isolated incident. They fill orders haphazardly - the guys in the warehouse probably just grab a horn, pay no attention to whether it's exactly the right thing, whether it's used or new or what condition it's in, toss it in a box sans packing and away it goes. Customer service then just offers the same bad deals that you got and that's what you get.
You might be able to haggle, whine or demand something better. It will take time and you might not be successful.
I really don't understand the outrage here. It's like sticking your hand in the lion cage holding a raw steak. It's surprising if you don't get at least scratched.
Every order from there is a roll of the dice. Seriously. You have to be willing to risk getting absolutely nothing when you order from there. You rolled and lost, though not too badly (not good either, but at least you didn't get a plastic ukulele). You're not the first, you probably won't be the last. I hope it's resolved, at least to the point were you get your money back or a satisfactory horn.
| RussellDDixon wrote: | I would remind them of this - 45 Day Satisfaction Guarantee
https://www.wwbw.com/Support-Center-Home-g27517t0.wwbw#TabtoAcc-Base4
"New Gear: If you’re not satisfied, neither are we. If for any reason you’re not completely satisfied with your purchase of a new item, simply return it in its original condition within 45 days of purchase (see exceptions below) and we’ll give you a full refund. It’s that simple." |
Worth a shot.
Then:
| Bigelow-Kid wrote: | | I can help you for future transactions -- call Thompson Music in Omaha. They're a Schilke dealer and will give you a great deal, superb service, and [won't] try and scam you. |
A much better idea. Support retailers that actually care about their customers. WWBW is not one. You might pay slightly more, but you'll actually get good service - not to mention what you actually pay for. Less hassle and you're supporting the good guys instead of enabling the scam artists/large corporate entities or whatever.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC-player wrote: | WWBW is a virus that has infected and almost destroyed the music instrument sales industry.
They one by one knocked out the small businesses in America, and replaced them with a lousy internet company, big business, borderline monopoly.
The super conglomerate Guitar Center owns just about all of the band and orchestra business between, WWBW, Music 123, Music and Arts Centers 100+ locations, and warehouses, shipping hubs, and jerk off phone sales teams.
I understand manufacturers need to make a buck, and WWBW is I'm sure their biggest accounts, but I'd love nothing more than to see Guirar Center crumble and get back to small business basics. |
Man, I could not agree more; WWBW has degraded from a great source (at least back in the 80's, when they still had a physical store in South Bend) into a shabbily run outfit with pathetic customer service, multiple stupid mistakes in shipping and ignorant phone "sales people." It's a real shame.
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC-player wrote: | WWBW is a virus that has infected and almost destroyed the music instrument sales industry.
They one by one knocked out the small businesses in America, and replaced them with a lousy internet company, big business, borderline monopoly.
The super conglomerate Guitar Center owns just about all of the band and orchestra business between, WWBW, Music 123, Music and Arts Centers 100+ locations, and warehouses, shipping hubs, and jerk off phone sales teams.
I understand manufacturers need to make a buck, and WWBW is I'm sure their biggest accounts, but I'd love nothing more than to see Guirar Center crumble and get back to small business basics. |
It all evens out in the end (and I think that end is coming closer as Guitar Center continues to circle the drain).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2015/05/11/more-evidence-of-big-changes-coming-to-guitar-center/ |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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I had a hassle with WWBW when I bought my Schilke E3L-4 from them in 2004. It arrived with the 4th slide tubing very slightly canted upward such that the 4th Slide came in contact with the bell rim as it was pulled all the way out. WWBW claimed it was UPS's fault (they claimed the horn was fine when shipped - right....). They further claimed that I should have filed an immediate complaint with UPS (but I didn't realize there was a problem until I attempted to take the 4th slide all the way out a while after receiving the horn). There was no damage to the shipping box and it is clear to me that the horn was either damaged while in stock at WWBW or it was built that way by Schilke (not likely).
I took the horn to Schilke and they said they could straighten it, but in doing so it might warp the 4th valve cylinder necessitating re-doing the 4th valve (a multi-hundred dollar repair). Schilke wouldn't honor the warranty on it because they claimed (most likely rightfully) that this was damage after they had shipped the horn to the WWBW.
In the end, I carefully adjusted the 4th valve slide tubing myself with no collateral damage to the the fourth valve and the horn is perfect.
And I learned my lesson. I have not, nor will I ever purchase an instrument from WWBW, or any similar conglomerate again. Al Cass Valve oil in shipments of 10 bottles or so at a time? Sure. But for instruments, I will only deal with a real music store now.
Sincerely,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | I had a hassle with WWBW when I bought my Schilke E3L-4 from them in 2004. It arrived with the 4th slide tubing very slightly canted upward such that the 4th Slide came in contact with the bell rim as it was pulled all the way out. WWBW claimed it was UPS's fault (they claimed the horn was fine when shipped - right....). They further claimed that I should have filed an immediate complaint with UPS (but I didn't realize there was a problem until I attempted to take the 4th slide all the way out a while after receiving the horn). There was no damage to the shipping box and it is clear to me that the horn was either damaged while in stock at WWBW or it was built that way by Schilke (not likely).
I took the horn to Schilke and they said they could straighten it, but in doing so it might warp the 4th valve cylinder necessitating re-doing the 4th valve (a multi-hundred dollar repair). Schilke wouldn't honor the warranty on it because they claimed (most likely rightfully) that this was damage after they had shipped the horn to the WWBW.
In the end, I carefully adjusted the 4th valve slide tubing myself with no collateral damage to the the fourth valve and the horn is perfect.
And I learned my lesson. I have not, nor will I ever purchase an instrument from WWBW, or any similar conglomerate again. Al Cass Valve oil in shipments of 10 bottles or so at a time? Sure. But for instruments, I will only deal with a real music store now.
Sincerely,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested |
I had a similar experience with WWBW, a Yamaha 8310 arrived with a BADLY dented bell crook, luckily I noticed it immediately (you could hardly miss it...which I pointed out to them; no way could it have happened in shipping, unless a UPS guy took it out of the case, dropped it and then sealed it back up...pretty improbable). Even so, it took numerous phone calls to finally get a WWBW manager to accept the return.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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In John's case I can understand a little skepticism by WWBW about how the instrument got damaged since he didn't report immediately. | John Mohan wrote: | | They further claimed that I should have filed an immediate complaint with UPS (but I didn't realize there was a problem until I attempted to take the 4th slide all the way out a while after receiving the horn |
After reading this thread anyone receiving a shipped instrument should thoroughly check the outside of the package and if there is damage take pictures before opening. File an immediate claim.
Then open the package and thoroughly inspect the instrument for damage or defects. Again, take pictures, file immediately. |
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8336
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | In John's case I can understand a little skepticism by WWBW about how the instrument got damaged since he didn't report immediately. | John Mohan wrote: | | They further claimed that I should have filed an immediate complaint with UPS (but I didn't realize there was a problem until I attempted to take the 4th slide all the way out a while after receiving the horn |
After reading this thread anyone receiving a shipped instrument should thoroughly check the outside of the package and if there is damage take pictures before opening. File an immediate claim.
Then open the package and thoroughly inspect the instrument for damage or defects. Again, take pictures, file immediately. |
That's all great advice, but you're (wrongly) assuming that WWBW gives a damn.
Send them all the pictures you want (I have) and they'll just say "How about $50 of store credit?" You might be able to work your way to a better offer, but it will take lots and lots of work on the phones and email. That's what they're counting on to make you go away.
Still, it's definitely worth doing. A better plan is do that, but also order from a better store that actually cares about customers. You're less likely to get a used/damaged horn, one that's been sent with zero packing, or just a random box of guitar string, picks, and capos instead of a C trumpet. Dillon Music, Washington Music, Thompson Music, they'll actually try to send you the right thing, in the appropriate condition, in a properly packed box.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | In John's case I can understand a little skepticism by WWBW about how the instrument got damaged since he didn't report immediately. | John Mohan wrote: | | They further claimed that I should have filed an immediate complaint with UPS (but I didn't realize there was a problem until I attempted to take the 4th slide all the way out a while after receiving the horn |
After reading this thread anyone receiving a shipped instrument should thoroughly check the outside of the package and if there is damage take pictures before opening. File an immediate claim.
Then open the package and thoroughly inspect the instrument for damage or defects. Again, take pictures, file immediately. |
That's all great advice, but you're (wrongly) assuming that WWBW gives a damn.
Send them all the pictures you want (I have) and they'll just say "How about $50 of store credit?" You might be able to work your way to a better offer, but it will take lots and lots of work on the phones and email. That's what they're counting on to make you go away.
Still, it's definitely worth doing. A better plan is do that, but also order from a better store that actually cares about customers. You're less likely to get a used/damaged horn, one that's been sent with zero packing, or just a random box of guitar string, picks, and capos instead of a C trumpet. Dillon Music, Washington Music, Thompson Music, they'll actually try to send you the right thing, in the appropriate condition, in a properly packed box. |
My advice will work fine as long as you don't intend on keeping the purchase. If they push back simply contact your credit card company. With pictures to back up your story you will almost always win.
However, if like the OP or yourself, you are willing to keep the damaged purchase, then yes you will need to convince them to give you a discount.
And I agree with purchasing from a dependable music company. I have dealt with Mike at Thompson music in person and over the phone and can recommend him highly. |
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8336
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | My advice will work fine as long as you don't intend on keeping the purchase. If they push back simply contact your credit card company. With pictures to back up your story you will almost always win.
However, if like the OP or yourself, you are willing to keep the damaged purchase, then yes you will need to convince them to give you a discount.
And I agree with purchasing from a dependable music company. I have dealt with Mike at Thompson music in person and over the phone and can recommend him highly. |
Fair enough. I'll admit I hadn't tried using a credit card company as leverage. It's certainly worth a shot.
When I got my Besson 709, it came in plastic bag inside a box. My DVDs and books from Amazon come with 4X as much packing (not that they need it). Not surprisingly, it had a dent in the bell bow. I could have returned it, but it was on clearance for a song. I don't remember what I got out of them, it wasn't much and it cost about $40-60 to get fixed, I think. It was about 8 years ago, I don't remember exactly.
From what I've read in threads like this, it's not surprising they have lots of B-stock inventory that they're selling. They don't pack anything properly, so I'm sure a fair amount gets returned and then they turn around and sell it for less and the cycle continues.
It'll be a better day for music merchants and customers when they (along with their other different named affiliates) go under for good.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Harry Hilgers
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Joined: 16 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: Deleted |
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BrassTonics
New Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2016
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I bought a student etude from them on eBay before and it came bent and the return process took 2 weeks in order to get my refund back. Waste of time. |
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Harry Hilgers
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:59 pm Post subject: Deleted |
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Harry Hilgers
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:28 pm Post subject: Deleted |
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Harry Hilgers
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:47 pm Post subject: Deleted |
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