• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Not like Riding a Bike


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Comeback Players
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:12 am    Post subject: Not like Riding a Bike Reply with quote

I felt myself getting a little discouraged the other evening. When I made the decision to "pick-up" the horn again. (sounds like drug addict talk) I was thinking "oh, I got this, just like riding a bike... - NOT! - Well, I did remember the C scale fingerings and I did remember what Bbwas, but that was about it.

I thought oh, the lip will come back quick enough... Ya, right!LOL! Well, maybe not again. ...

I was/am a bit discouraged. But, intellectually I tell myself, it's only been a month. I tell myself other things too. Like, "you are only practicing a hour or so a day, what to you expect." I guess I know I need to give myself time. Some of what I read here says that, and I intuitively know it's true. But, it's definitely giving me a big dose of humble pie.

What doesn't help is my dear wife never knew me when I actually could play. So (in my mind) she is cringing at every broken note, while she turns up the volume of the Red-Sox. She's good about it actually, well, kinda.. I haven't started spending any "real" money yet. ...well there was that new vintage Conn 6B and the money to Osmun (worth twice what they charged me) and the new Pro-tec case. ..but no REAL money. ...yet.

Just the same, I guess it never comes back as fast as one would like. I know I need to just be patient and do the work. I think that is the key "do the work". It has been for any other thing I have ever wanted that was difficult.
"Do the work, be patient, and keep coming" Those words seem to have the ring of truth.

I'm only about a month in. It's summer. I'm at the gym 3 mornings a week, then either in the garden, or chasing life's errands. Even when I do play, I don't have all that much stamina. The lip seems to be toast after 1/2 hour ro so, but I do take rests. I sift through practice books, take log notes of my progress/sins, etc.

Does any of this rant sound familiar to you guys? I'll feel better if I'm not alone I guess.

Have a great day and play your horn! I'll keep going. Just hoping I'm not the only one this wasn't easy for.

Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VetPsychWars
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 7196
Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took me a lot longer than a month. Try to not "light it up" so much, buth rather take it easy and let your practice routine lead you to pushing air instead of letting it fall out. Your embouchure will take time to firm up again, but it will ifi you go slowly.

Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dstdenis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 2123
Location: Atlanta GA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, be patient, and I would also suggest you shouldn't be in such a hurry that you wear out your chops, which can lead to big problems. Pace yourself and slowly build a base foundation of fitness. Sometimes you have to slow down to go fast, and I think picking up trumpet again is like that.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VetPsychWars wrote:
It took me a lot longer than a month. Try to not "light it up" so much, buth rather take it easy and let your practice routine lead you to pushing air instead of letting it fall out. Your embouchure will take time to firm up again, but it will ifi you go slowly.

Tom


Thanks Tom, yeah.. I guess I need to back off a bit and stay focused on just getting good sound and "pushing the sound/air out of the horn".

I think what happens, is I'm excited about playing some of the neat jazz riffs I've found in the Real Book. 502 Blues/Jimmy Rowles and Satin Doll/Ellington are a couple. So I don't spend enough time on the exercises and start diving in to playing these tunes. ..and of course they have all sorts of notes above high E like high F and above the staff. High E is about all I'm good for on the high side, so I reach for F and of course it either doesn't happen at all or comes out weak and out of tune. ..but it's just so much fun to be able to play any of that, it's hard to stay away. Kinda' like putting chocolate on the table in front of my wife.

But not working the exercises and focusing on the sound and transition between notes and quality, is definitely part of my problem.

Thanks for helping me think it through a bit Tom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstdenis wrote:
Yes, be patient, and I would also suggest you shouldn't be in such a hurry that you wear out your chops, which can lead to big problems. Pace yourself and slowly build a base foundation of fitness. Sometimes you have to slow down to go fast, and I think picking up trumpet again is like that.


I am familiar with the concept and have seen it work.

I will try to slow down and stick with the exercises a bit more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BGinNJ
Veteran Member


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 379

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's natural and normal with the trumpet, especially a comeback, to want to move ahead more quickly, and get discouraged when that doesn't happen very easily.

Because the trumpet is compelling, beguiling, we get obsessed, overdo it, then get frustrated. Then bad habits & worn out chops happen. Remember, you didn't play for years, you don't have to make a living at it, no ones grading you. It's OK to take a break, keep it fun.

I'm about 4 years into may latest comeback, and in that time I've quit again, for several weeks at a time. Sometimes out of frustration, or lack of playing opportunities, or other priorities in life. But along the way, I've had some experiences I hadn't had in a while or missed before- playing with a regular band, taking some lessons, going to a workshop, trying different horns, buying a couple. And most important, increasing my range and stamina.

These are all lasting changes, so if I pick it up again (I can't stop myself either) after a few weeks off (like now), I know in a week or two, I'll be back in good shape.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
connicalman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 1668
Location: West Medford, MA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpeting? The activity IS a lot like riding a bike.

Trumpeting and bike riding each require time. Each take dedication of 4 or more hours per day, 5, 6, 7 days per week, sustained for several years, to be a pro. The cost. The cost of entry-level vs intermediate vs world-class custom machinery is virtually in parallel, a couple hundred, a couple thousand, a couple ten thousand dollars, yet money does not buy results. Further, both offer never-ending options for using little bottles of different lubes. Then the gear. One can obsess over gear, but no one ever does, right? The form-fitting lycra spandex clothing. Shoes. Did I mention shoes? OK. OK. LOL. I"ll put on my helmet and get back on topic.

Riding a bike can make almost anyone appear better/fitter than they actually are. Meanwhile playing a trumpet seems to make almost everyone sound worse than they might be. Why is this? I think that our eyes are more forgiving than our ears, and our ears demand something other than making 7 mph headway along a quiet country road. Kids and grandparents, anyone looks good doing that and we enjoy the photos of such, but we're quickly annoyed by and would hardly want to record one-octave half-note scales. Same thing, tho, ain't it?

Like bicycling, trumpeting is a lonely discipline. Just you, your machine, and your vision of where you want to be. Also, with each, it takes months to get in shape.

Months.

Enjoy the ride!
_________________
kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is like riding a bike: you never forget how to fall off.

Just keep picking yourself back up again.
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9828
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While playing trumpet and riding a bicycle or similar in that they both require strength and coordination, playing a trumpet requires much more of both then pedaling along at an easy rate on a bike. With proper practice, trumpet playing can and will come back to you quicker - perhaps much quicker - than the first time around, but it won't be instantaneous.

Separate your practice into several 10 to 15 minute routines each day. While playing individual exercises, rest as long as you played between each one. Rest at least a half hour (an hour or more is better) between those 3 or so individual sub-routines each day.

I'd recommend your make your first sub-routine to be simple Flexibility Exercises ("Twenty Seven Groups of Exercises" by Earl D. Irons is good for this, and if you're having trouble with getting as high as G on top the staff easily, then a better Flexibilities book for you would be "Fundamental Flexibilities" by Matt Graves.

For your second routine of the day, play simpler exercises out of Arbans, or perhaps "Elementary Studies" by Herbert L. Clarke.

Then, for your third set of the day, practice easy to play songs.

Have fun!

Cheers,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student


Last edited by John Mohan on Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

connicalman wrote:
Trumpeting? The activity IS a lot like riding a bike.

Trumpeting and bike riding each require time. Each take dedication of 4 or more hours per day, 5, 6, 7 days per week, sustained for several years, to be a pro.The cost. The cost of entry-level vs intermediate vs world-class custom machinery is virtually in parallel, a couple hundred, a couple thousand, a couple ten thousand dollars, yet money does not buy results. Further, both offer never-ending options for using little bottles of different lubes. Then the gear. One can obsess over gear, but no one ever does, right? The form-fitting lycra spandex clothing. Shoes. Did I mention shoes? OK. OK. LOL. I"ll put on my helmet and get back on topic.

Riding a bike can make almost anyone appear better/fitter than they actually are. Meanwhile playing a trumpet seems to make almost everyone sound worse than they might be. Why is this? I think that our eyes are more forgiving than our ears, and our ears demand something other than making 7 mph headway along a quiet country road. Kids and grandparents, anyone looks good doing that and we enjoy the photos of such, but we're quickly annoyed by and would hardly want to record one-octave half-note scales. Same thing, tho, ain't it?

Like bicycling, trumpeting is a lonely discipline. Just you, your machine, and your vision of where you want to be. Also, with each, it takes months to get in shape.

Months.

Enjoy the ride!


Connicalman! You're scaring me! LOL!

Seriously, I'll keep putting in some time everyday, but it just isn't going to add up to 4 or more hours a day.But I do take the point, and I think your right about the metaphor, and especially the back country road 7 mph, and the one-octave half note scales.

PS My son lives in Medford! On North St.

Thanks for the info,

Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
While playing trumpet and riding a bicycle or similar in that they both require strength and coordination, playing a trumpet requires much more of both then pedaling along at an easy rate on a bike. With proper practice, trumpet playing can and will come back to you quicker - perhaps much quicker - than the first time around, but it won't be instantaneous.

Separate your practice into several 10 to 15 minute routines each day. While playing individual exercises, rest as long as you played between each one. Rest at least a half hour (an hour or more is better) between those 3 or so individual sub-routines each day.

I'd recommend your make your first sub-routine to be simple Flexibility Exercises ("Twenty Seven Groups of Exercises" by Earl D. Irons is good for this, and if you're having trouble with getting as high as G on top the staff easily, then a better Flexibilities book for you would be "Fundamental Flexibilities" by Matt Graves.

For your second routine of the day, play simpler exercises out of Arbans, or perhaps "Elementary Studies" by Herbert L. Clarke.

Then, for your third set of the day, practice easy to play songs.

Have fun!

Cheers,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested


Thank you John, I very much value your input and do have the ability to break up practice sessions. - great idea.

Also I'll source those Irons, Graves and Abrans books.

As I continue down this path I'm also considering lessons, I know they can't hurt, and may e-mail you in the near future.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bamajazzlady
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 691

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About lessons, never refuse to get some from any player who is worth his or her salt.
_________________
"Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending." - Maria Robinson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman rev2 wrote:
It is like riding a bike: you never forget how to fall off.

Just keep picking yourself back up again.


Don, I can see where the first is very true. ...and I like the 2nd thought too.

Thanks for the good laugh.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamajazzlady wrote:
About lessons, never refuse to get some from any player who is worth his or her salt.


I'm a good listener and try to teachable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeorgeB
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve I hadn't played in 50+ years when I came back, and I'll tell you, that first month was full of frustrations because I was doing everything in overdrive and I was so frustrated at times that I was ready to put my horn back in the closet. But once ( after some good advice ) I cut back on the practice time in the am ( from 2-3 hours to no more than 1 hr on the face ), learned to play softer and switched to playing tunes rather than technical stuff in the pm, everything just started to come together and now after nearly 5 months I feel like I am in a good place.
The advice John Mohan gave you is solid stuff, Steve.

PS: even after 5 months I get careless now and then and blow the odd broken note. I still have a long way to go to be a better player than I was in my youth, and that is my goal.
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB wrote:
Steve I hadn't played in 50+ years when I came back, and I'll tell you, that first month was full of frustrations because I was doing everything in overdrive and I was so frustrated at times that I was ready to put my horn back in the closet. But once ( after some good advice ) I cut back on the practice time in the am ( from 2-3 hours to no more than 1 hr on the face ), learned to play softer and switched to playing tunes rather than technical stuff in the pm, everything just started to come together and now after nearly 5 months I feel like I am in a good place.
The advice John Mohan gave you is solid stuff, Steve.

PS: even after 5 months I get careless now and then and blow the odd broken note. I still have a long way to go to be a better player than I was in my youth, and that is my goal.


Thanks George, I took John's note to heart and started taking breaks last night. Doing everything in overdrive is a good way to put it. I need to back off and realize my chops are going to take time.

I should really know better because I just went through the first 6 months of this with my "get in shape" program at the local gym. With very similar results. It just takes time. I've heard it said before, time takes time.

My goals are vague at present. I might like to get involved in a community band of some sort. I haven't really explored much beyond just being able to carry a tune for a few bars. When I played in HS I didn't have the love of jazz I developed over the last 30 years, but I know it was my trumpet that took there when I got sick of the music on radio.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeorgeB
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the old standards and always had a love of jazz, but was never much good at improvisation so I didn't do much jazz playing in my 20s and 30s. There is a few opportunities here that I will explore down the road, but learning improvisation is low on my priority right now. The New Horizons band starts up her sometime next month and I really need experience playing orchestra charts: that is my priority right now.

I'm glad you are taking John's advice. I follow his posts and he is undoubtedly a fine trumpet player and top notch teacher. Just stick with it, my friend. Whenever I have a good practice or nail a tune, I am on cloud nine and that makes it all worthwhile. I'm sure you will feel the same when you are playing those cool notes down the road.
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveleblanc
Regular Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 50
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
While playing trumpet and riding a bicycle or similar in that they both require strength and coordination, playing a trumpet requires much more of both then pedaling along at an easy rate on a bike. With proper practice, trumpet playing can and will come back to you quicker - perhaps much quicker - than the first time around, but it won't be instantaneous.

Separate your practice into several 10 to 15 minute routines each day. While playing individual exercises, rest as long as you played between each one. Rest at least a half hour (an hour or more is better) between those 3 or so individual sub-routines each day.

I'd recommend your make your first sub-routine to be simple Flexibility Exercises ("Twenty Seven Groups of Exercises" by Earl D. Irons is good for this, and if you're having trouble with getting as high as G on top the staff easily, then a better Flexibilities book for you would be "Fundamental Flexibilities" by Matt Graves.

For your second routine of the day, play simpler exercises out of Arbans, or perhaps "Elementary Studies" by Herbert L. Clarke.

Then, for your third set of the day, practice easy to play songs.

Have fun!

Cheers,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested


Based on the feedback John Mohan so kindly provided and some of the other similar feedback I've read in this thread and others, I have "slowed down to go fast"

My new daily routine is usually like this. I do a couple hours in the gym in the morning, of weight machines, cardio with the treadmill and/or a couple hundred yards in the pool.


1. I start with some leadpipe buzzing. Not much, maybe 5 mintues with some 1 minute breaks.

2. Then I do some basic scales. C scale, F Major, Bb Major, Eb Major, G Major, D Major, A Major and E Major. Lot's of this is I try to burn in the various flats/sharps and fingerings per each. But it's a decent exercise as well, and I break between scales.

3. Then I have an old Charles Colin method book and I do a few of the beginner studies in that. They are flexibility exercises and really help/challenge slotting the notes properly. Thinking the note before playing it really works and when I don't do that it is immediately apparent.

4. Finally I do long tones from a Bill Adams routine and also some basic Endurance studies from Adams.

This takes me three twenty minute sessions. Sometimes I do fewer scales but more reps and sometimes I do more long tones. The Bill Adams long tones are half note progressions starting at middle G and working high then low then 1/2 note higher/lower up to high G and down to low F#. I don't push the highs but surprisingly the flexibility effort usually allows me to hit E and F consistently and not so much the high G. yet. But I'm not making it a mandatory at all I'm just trying to make clean long tones.

I also bought the Herbert Clark Elementary Studies and have been slowly working through that. The mini-tutorials interspersed with the lessons are almost like taking a set of private lessons. I'll do a little of this instead of scales or other exercises a couple times a week to mix it up.

Finally I try to do another session in the evening, with a little warm-up and then play a few simple tunes either from the Real Book, or from various other sheet music I have.

Some nice basic jazz tunes I'm using just for some less boring practice are

Autumn Leaves, Gee Baby Ain't I Good to You, Summertime, 502 Blues, Satin Doll, I Love Paris... a few others. This is where my need to get better with practice for flexibility and slotting and "hearing the note" before I play. It really shows me how important the exercises are.

What do you other folks do for playing tunes, or exercises?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeorgeB
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do the technical stuff during my early morning practice ( long tones, lip slurs, all the major scales, chromatic scales, Chicowitz flow studies, etc., and leave the afternoon for playing the tunes I love...and they are the old standards, with a few that sound good on trumpet like I had The Craziest Dream, Tenderly, Perfidia, Tangerine, etc.
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Hilgers
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Not like Riding a Bike Reply with quote

steveleblanc wrote:
.............Does any of this rant sound familiar to you guys? I'll feel better if I'm not alone I guess...................Just hoping I'm not the only one this wasn't easy for.................

Steve

Steve, from the previous posts in this thread you have now found out that this indeed "sounds VERY familiar" and "NO" you are not alone.

I am 73 and I started again last year April (I think) after a 10 or so (I think) years layoff.

My memory went south with my chops ....... ......

My initial practice routine was driven by that oh-so-familiar-impatience to get back to "the-way-we-were" in just a few days ......... and of course with very negative results ......

Then I started reading this forum resulting in me "wising-up-a-bit". Now I pretty much follow a combination of the different "words-of-practice-routine-wisdom-and-material" that have been given in this thread AND I do have a teacher.

So I have not added anything new here, except just letting you know that you are definitely not alone with your frustrations to making the beast work again .....

Cheers and Happy New Year.
Harry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Comeback Players All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group