F# below Double Pedal C?

[BPL]

Question: How does F# below Double Pedal C feel for you?

For me; the F# seems to "want" to resonate much like triple pedal C... "like a tractor" as Claude said.

On the other hand, the G, a half step higher, feels and sounds like double pedal C.. just deeper. So G and F# below double pedal C sound and feel very different for me.

I can connect the Ab and (sometimes) the G to the rest of my range, but the F# seems to be asking me for a reset.

It's not a biggie.. but I've been wondering if I should bother trying to connect this last 1/2 an octave to the rest of my range? I love the feeling of these notes, and get a benefit from them, but do I need to connect them up?

Brett

[solo soprano]

While we can play to third pedal C and below, for the purpose of development it is not necessary to go any lower than second pedal C (two octaves below low C), because nothing further develops from this point down.
_________________
Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music

[Jeff_Purtle]

Systematic Approach actually has exercises that start on Double Pedal C and it kind of begs the point that you need to be able to go at least a few keys below that to be comfortable.

In the past I have taken the range studies in Systematic Approach down to quadruple pedal C. I did it because Claude said he used to do that and I figured I would try to do it because he had done it and I didn't want to be left out. But, in my experience it didn't do much of anything good or bad in my playing and it just took more time. I now stop at an A below triple pedal C just so that I know I can hit a triple pedal C.

In my experience the pedals are kind of different in the following way. Pedal F down to Pedal C# don't lock in on a slot and their sound for most people is smaller but over time can get bigger and more free. Pedal C down to Pedal F# on the trumpet is flat for most people (90% in my experience with students) if they are playing them correctly. In time it might take months or years for the Pedal C to come up to pitch and could be as low as a Perfect 5th under pitch.

Double Pedal F down to Double Pedal C# is pretty easy for most people to play in tune with a big full sound. Double Pedal C down to Double Pedal F# for most people has a little different feel. Then, Triple Pedal F down to Triple Pedal C# has another sort of feel. From Double Pedal C down you have to be careful to not do weird things with your lower lip turning out. There is one relatively well know teacher that has a video demonstrating them playing in that register by turning their lower lip out. That is totally useless and missing the point.

One interesting side note is that several years back I was given a very nice tuba (i.e. Miraphone 186 BBb 4 valve tuba). I figured I needed to be grateful and practice it and see what I could learn. I treated myself like a complete beginner and did basic things I assign to all my private students and soon could play down to the lowest notes easier than other professional tuba players that sit behind me in orchestras. It was all in the tongue level and the pedal tones I had done on trumpet for years and it felt EXACTLY the same on the tuba for the same concert pitch. They sounded like real notes on the tuba though. A Triple Pedal C on the trumpet is a Pedal Bb on tuba and that note is so easy to play and feels like it does on the trumpet except the tuba mouthpiece covers more of my lips.

What is also crazy is that I can go down to a Pedal Eb below Pedal Bb on tuba. That is the same concert pitch as a Quadruple Pedal F on the trumpet. I can feel it with the tongue level.

When you play the pedals correctly you can eventually play from the lowest pedals to the highest of high notes without changing your embouchure. Anyone that espouses some kind of high note embouchure is missing the point of flexibility and playable range. We want playable range.

Anyone that looks at Claude's Systematic Approach book from the beginning to the end will see the progressive nature of flexibility introduced as you move through the book. That is also why a practice routine has to cover all fundamental aspects of playing so that everything becomes easier and more usable for any kind of music we want to play.
_________________
Jeff Purtle
Trumpet Lessons Online since 2004, teaching since 1983
MultiTouch book on Claude Gordon
+1 864-354-3223 iPhone w/ FaceTime
Skype: jeff_purtle

[BPL]

That pretty much nails it.. thanks. I could ask 100 more questions about pedals.. but I'll spare us all

It's fascinating, Jeff, that you can feel the same tongue level on trumpet and tuba. It makes sense, and highlights the role of the feel.

[amuk]

OK, I don't play pedals but I know trumpet players that do. I play beside a few.
After playing pedals, they get about 90 seconds of being able to play in the high register (c and f above the staff) after which their range falters and they are back to normal middle register (g and a at the top of the staff --until they play some more pedals.
I don't get it. Why bother, since it doesn't seem to have any longer lasting effects other than temporary relaxation of the embouchure muscles?

[solo soprano]

[Trumpetingbynurture]

[Jeff_Purtle]