Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:04 am Post subject: My daughter... my protege
Okay, so my I gave my daughter a choice of instruments to choose from for band... the trumpet or cornet. I know, that is really a wide choice and I'm so glad show chose the cornet. I got her an Olds Ambassador for the 1930's.
Anyway, she is coming along but still struggles with a few techniques that I just can't seem to get through to her. To me, it comes naturally and automatically and I'm having a hard time using the proper terms and demonstrating to her how to fix some issues she is having. I realize most of it is just her simply being a beginner and not having anything developed.
One issue is she is tonguing her notes so that they sound like tat tat rather than taw taw. It is almost like she wants to start each note with her tongue and end each note with her tongue, really cutting off the air supply and "pinching" her notes.
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center. And rather than having a 2/3rds of mouthpiece to the bottom lip, she has it to the upper lip. But when I try and change it, she can barely play. It is almost like that setting is just her normal and works for her... should I try and change that for her?
Another issue is her inability to understand to breath from the diaphragm and not the chest. When she does that, she gets so tense and her sound suffers from it.
Her range is coming along but the higher she goes, the more it sounds like she is strangling the poor horn.
What I am really asking is what are some things I could try with her to help with these issues. She is only 10 and has many more years to develop. She is best in her class for her age so that is good. The most annoying thing is describing to her how to tongue a note to allow it to sound full and resonate, not to make it sound like it is being strangled to death.
Any input or resources would be appreciated. Thanks. _________________ Just a guy that likes to toot my own horn. Literally.
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: Re: My daughter... my protege
Raggerty wrote:
Chefcaleb wrote:
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center.
Maybe she's been watching Melissa Venema play.
I don't think she's seen her but that is definitely what she looks like playing. I mean I guess if it works for her, then fine. After all, puffing out the cheeks worked pretty well for Dizzy. _________________ Just a guy that likes to toot my own horn. Literally.
I find it painful to watch her, but she's obviously brilliant.
I'm only a beginner, but from reading around and watching a lot of playing, it seems there is no one single correct lip position or embouchure. However, there are definitely some incorrect things to do.
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: My daughter... my protege
Chefcaleb wrote:
Okay, so my I gave my daughter a choice of instruments to choose from for band... the trumpet or cornet. I know, that is really a wide choice and I'm so glad show chose the cornet. I got her an Olds Ambassador for the 1930's.
Anyway, she is coming along but still struggles with a few techniques that I just can't seem to get through to her. To me, it comes naturally and automatically and I'm having a hard time using the proper terms and demonstrating to her how to fix some issues she is having. I realize most of it is just her simply being a beginner and not having anything developed.
One issue is she is tonguing her notes so that they sound like tat tat rather than taw taw. It is almost like she wants to start each note with her tongue and end each note with her tongue, really cutting off the air supply and "pinching" her notes.
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center. And rather than having a 2/3rds of mouthpiece to the bottom lip, she has it to the upper lip. But when I try and change it, she can barely play. It is almost like that setting is just her normal and works for her... should I try and change that for her?
Another issue is her inability to understand to breath from the diaphragm and not the chest. When she does that, she gets so tense and her sound suffers from it.
Her range is coming along but the higher she goes, the more it sounds like she is strangling the poor horn.
What I am really asking is what are some things I could try with her to help with these issues. She is only 10 and has many more years to develop. She is best in her class for her age so that is good. The most annoying thing is describing to her how to tongue a note to allow it to sound full and resonate, not to make it sound like it is being strangled to death.
Any input or resources would be appreciated. Thanks.
I'd be happy to help.
First off, from some of the things you've written, I would guess your personal brass knowledge was learned sometime prior to the 1980's or so.
Much of what you were taught was misinformation.
Concerning mouthpiece placement, though that is a very personal thing and does vary, the majority of players play with the mouthpiece more on the top lip than the bottom. Off a bit to one side or the other is perfectly fine. Trying to force your daughter to play with the mouthpiece down low is just, well, sad. The results (or rather, lack of results) when she tries to appease you is telling.
Concerning breathing, we do not breath from our diaphragms, we breath from our lungs (which are in our chest). The diaphragm is a membrane that contains some muscle but it is not involved in forced expiration. Its muscle tissue is involuntary and is only involved in breathing air in when we are not thinking about it (for instance, when sleeping or maybe reading a book).
The main muscles of expiration are the internal intercostals, particularly the posterior portion (in the middle of the back). These muscles located between the ribs provide the bellows-like squeezing action that creates the air pressure needed for brass playing.
To properly breath while playing a brass instrument is very easy. Do the following without the horn, to get the feel of proper breathing: One should just maintain a good, upright posture and keep one's chest up. Take in a full breath, then blow, while keeping the chest up in a position of good posture, and with the shoulders relaxed - not stiff. If the chest is kept up, all the available muscles of expiration will be able to participate. If the chest is allowed to sink as the air runs out, the posterior portion of the intercostals won't be able to be part of the effort and a lot of potential air power is then lost.
There's obviously much more information to be given, but I really can't spell it all out here.
Perhaps the best advice I can tell you is to not be overly concerned about fixing issues in her playing immediately. For instance, telling a player their tone is airy and expecting them to clear it up right away, or telling a student who plays everything staccato (as your daughter does) to play more legato and just expecting the problem to clear up quickly doesn't work. I wouldn't even talk to her about the tonguing problem. The key to improving her tonguing (and indeed, all other aspects of her playing) is simply, proper practice done each day, and the patience to let nature take its course and the desired development to occur.
I advise you to purchase the book Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing by Claude Gordon and read it thoroughly. And for you daughter, Claude's book Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing would be an excellent method book to help her develop her sound, technique and range. Both are published by Carl Fischer Music and both can be found on amazon.com.
Full disclosure: While I receive no financial compensation for any purchases of the above books, I am pretty biased toward Claude Gordon's teachings and approach since it was he and his teaching more than anything else, that has been responsible for my successful career as a professional trumpet player.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student
Last edited by John Mohan on Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject:
From a post I wrote last year:
John Mohan wrote:
I combined three of the short animations available in my Anatomy and Physiology online homework and study material and posted them on YouTube. As they can't be downloaded, I just used my iPhone to video my computer screen as they each ran and then combined them into one video, so it's not perfect, but the video shows the main muscles of expiration (the internal intercostals, particularly in the area of the back), and the muscles that assist during expiration (the rectus abdominus muscles and the internal oblique muscles). Enjoy!
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: My daughter... my protege
John Mohan wrote:
Chefcaleb wrote:
Okay, so my I gave my daughter a choice of instruments to choose from for band... the trumpet or cornet. I know, that is really a wide choice and I'm so glad show chose the cornet. I got her an Olds Ambassador for the 1930's.
Anyway, she is coming along but still struggles with a few techniques that I just can't seem to get through to her. To me, it comes naturally and automatically and I'm having a hard time using the proper terms and demonstrating to her how to fix some issues she is having. I realize most of it is just her simply being a beginner and not having anything developed.
One issue is she is tonguing her notes so that they sound like tat tat rather than taw taw. It is almost like she wants to start each note with her tongue and end each note with her tongue, really cutting off the air supply and "pinching" her notes.
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center. And rather than having a 2/3rds of mouthpiece to the bottom lip, she has it to the upper lip. But when I try and change it, she can barely play. It is almost like that setting is just her normal and works for her... should I try and change that for her?
Another issue is her inability to understand to breath from the diaphragm and not the chest. When she does that, she gets so tense and her sound suffers from it.
Her range is coming along but the higher she goes, the more it sounds like she is strangling the poor horn.
What I am really asking is what are some things I could try with her to help with these issues. She is only 10 and has many more years to develop. She is best in her class for her age so that is good. The most annoying thing is describing to her how to tongue a note to allow it to sound full and resonate, not to make it sound like it is being strangled to death.
Any input or resources would be appreciated. Thanks.
I'd be happy to help.
First off, from some of the things you've written, I would guess your personal brass knowledge was learned sometime prior to the 1980's or so.
Much of what you were taught was misinformation.
Concerning mouthpiece placement, though that is a very personal thing and does vary, the majority of players play with the mouthpiece more on the top lip than the bottom. Off a bit to one side or the other is perfectly fine. Trying to force your daughter to play with the mouthpiece down low is just, well, sad. The results (or rather, lack of results) when she tries to appease you is telling.
Concerning breathing, we do not breath from our diaphragms, we breath from our lungs (which are in our chest). The diaphragm is a membrane that contains some muscle but it is not involved in forced expiration. Its muscle tissue is involuntary and is only involved in breathing air in when we are not thinking about it (for instance, when sleeping or maybe reading a book).
The main muscles of expiration are the internal intercostals, particularly the posterior portion (in the middle of the back). These muscles located between the ribs provide the bellows-like squeezing action that creates the air pressure needed for brass playing.
To properly breath while playing a brass instrument is very easy. Do the following without the horn, to get the feel of proper breathing: One should just maintain a good, upright posture and keep one's chest up. Take in a full breath, then blow, while keeping the chest up in a position of good posture, and with the shoulders relaxed - not stiff. If the chest is kept up, all the available muscles of expiration will be able to participate. If the chest is allowed to sink as the air runs out, the posterior portion of the intercostals won't be able to be part of the effort and a lot of potential air power is then lost.
There's obviously much more information to be given, but I really can't spell it all out here.
Perhaps the best advice I can tell you is to not be overly concerned about fixing issues in her playing immediately. For instance, telling a player their tone is airy and expecting them to clear it up right away, or telling a student who plays everything staccato (as your daughter does) to play more legato and just expecting the problem to clear up quickly doesn't work. I wouldn't even talk to her about the tonguing problem. The key to improving her tonguing (and indeed, all other aspects of her playing) is simply, proper practice done each day, and the patience to let nature take its course and the desired development to occur.
I advise you to purchase the book Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing by Claude Gordon and read it thoroughly. And for you daughter, Claude's book Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing would be an excellent method book to help her develop her sound, technique and range. Both are published by Carl Fischer Music and both can be found on amazon.com.
Full disclosure: While I receive no financial compensation for any purchases of the above books, I am pretty biased toward Claude Gordon's teachings and approach since it was he and his teaching more than anything else, that has been responsible for my successful career as a professional trumpet player.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
That's very true and what I was asking as far as the embouchure goes. If it's not an issue the I won't worry about it.
I was taught mainly during the 90s and early 2000s. I am not a professional but I want to make sure I'm guiding my daughter in the right direction.
I guess I didn't mean that she needs to breath from her diagram, I often times use the wrong terms and do the know how to explain myself. Which is where I am struggling with my daughter. I know how to play but I just can't seem how to get it through to my daughter, what comes so naturally to me.
Her breathing issues are... she takes breaths from what I call the top of her lungs... yes I know that that may not be physically possible but it's what it looks like. Her shoulders go back and she gets so tense. When I breath in, my shoulders don't move and my air fills up and my stomach comes out. Allowing more air in. At least this is what it fills like. So her breaths are shallow while mine are full. And yes I've followed Gordon's book and it helped with my range a lot. I feel like I already do the things he mentioned about breathing but as I said, I can't seem to get that across to her.
But your right, over time she'll develop her own style and technique. I'm just wanting to know if anyone has had direct experience with teaching youngsters and what worked for them. _________________ Just a guy that likes to toot my own horn. Literally.
Add du sylable - One exhale _ pHUUUdududududuuuuu, blowing through the tongue.
Imagination - "Imagine the greatest sound ever." I'd have her listening to Alison Balsom and Tine Thing Helseth. "Make the sound that you are hearing in your mind."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa2vzx-aNrw
The way you describe your breathing sounds correct to me. The trick is to find a description or instruction which will let her grasp the concept.
BTW I studied with Arnold Jacobs, check out his Youtubes. He knew everything about the physiology of playing but his teaching boiled down to "Wind and Song." I don't disagree with anything that John said. A good teacher has 47 different ways of teaching the same thing to find what clicks with the student.
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject:
Well it sounds to me like you are on the right track with her and I'm happy if my ideas are of help. I didn't mean to be too nit picky about the diaphragm thing - it's true that many people (including apparently you) when using terms like "breathe from the diaphragm" really mean simply to take good, full breath. There is another "diaphragm" school of thought from back in the day, that one should push their belly out when playing, even as they blow. It is this idea that is particularly counterproductive to good brass playing.
Her shoulders being back is fine - as long as she is not tensing them up. Raising the shoulders up is not good.
There is a simple Breathing Exercise you can have her do to build the habit of proper breathing. I'll copy and paste my instructions for it:
Quote:
Claude Gordon Preliminary Breathing Exercise
By John Mohan
Preliminary Instructions:
Take a full, relaxed breath. Do not worry about where the air is going (i.e. “using the diaphragm”, “pushing the stomach out”, etc.). Air can only go to one place: your lungs! Just take a full comfortable breath. Don’t raise your shoulders, as you can’t get air into them. With a full breath, you should have a nice upright posture, with your chest up, like a soldier standing comfortably at attention – full and upright, but relaxed. Your arms should be hanging at your sides. Swing them back a little bit, as this will help you to get the feel of having your chest upright.
To check that you are staying relaxed, while full of air count out loud to 5: “1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – 5.” If you are relaxed, the words will come out without any hints of strain in your voice. This is very important, as one of the most important things we must do as brass players is to learn to be able to create tremendous amounts of air-power and muscular tension in the parts of the body directly involved with the physical production of sound, while at the same time be completely relaxed in all parts of our body that aren’t directly involved in the physical production of sound. If a champion weight lifter strains uninvolved parts of his body as he thrusts a heavy weight over his head, it doesn’t matter. But, if a trumpet player strains and raises for instance, the back (instead of the front) of his tongue to the roof of his mouth, in that feeling we perceive as a “choking off of the air” as he/she strains for a high note, nothing is going to come out of the bell.
Hopefully, you haven’t been holding your breath while reading the last 4 sentences! Back to breathing:
Take that full comfortable breath (again), count to 5 out loud while full of air, and then blow the air out in a relaxed manner, but DO NOT LET YOUR CHEST DROP. As you blow the air out, your abdomen will come in. As you start to run out of air, you will feel the muscles of your back and abdomen tighten. Resist the urge to let your chest drop. It might feel funny at first, but there are several benefits to be gained by maintaining a good upright posture when breathing (and playing). First off, note that if you let your chest drop as you run out of air, you won’t feel any tension in your lower back muscles as you blow all the air out. This is because by letting your chest drop and not having a proper upright posture, those back muscles are no longer as involved in the creation of air-power as they can be when you blow. Therefore, you would no longer be using all the muscles that are available to be used. Secondly, letting your chest drop can promote the creation of upper body tension, which can migrate up to your throat area, causing you to “choke off” the note or supply of air. This common feeling is actually caused by incorrectly raising the back of your tongue towards the back part of the roof of your mouth, or the top of your throat. Keeping your chest up at all times helps to eliminate this problem.
1) Preliminary Exercise:
Practice the following for 2 weeks daily:
Take in a full breath and blow it out, as described in the preceding section. Do this 10 times in a row (but stop if you feel dizzy or light headed). Do this exercise 5 to 10 times a day. 20 times per day would be even better. 10 breaths in and out, 5 to 10 times a day. After two weeks of this, move on to the Walking Breathing Exercises.
From what you've said I gather she's a beginner. As such at this stage I would prioritize focusing on a good sound as the most important. Once she has her embouchure more tuned in and getting a solid sound I would expand the kinds of things she focuses on.
But at this point she's still figuring out which end is up, dealing with a lot of unfamiliar neuromuscular feedback, things you've had years to get a handle on. I wouldn't worry as much about the fine points for now. The worst possible outcome would be for her to get frustrated and quit playing altogether.
You could also have her work on a lot of exercises that preclude "tatting" such as half note scales, long tones etc. with the focus on getting a good supported sound. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:08 pm Post subject:
For tonguing, you might see if she can play just one short note without cutting it off with her tongue. Keep trying until she gets it. Then try two short notes without cutting off. Then three. Then four, etc.
Unless her mouthpiece placement is way off center, it's fine to let her place it where it's comfortable and works.
Here's a video tutorial on taking a relaxed, full breath for trumpet playing that might be helpful: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oGm1MAT-ttQ _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:11 am Post subject: Re: My daughter... my protege
Chefcaleb wrote:
Okay, so my I gave my daughter a choice of instruments to choose from for band... the trumpet or cornet. I know, that is really a wide choice and I'm so glad show chose the cornet. I got her an Olds Ambassador for the 1930's.
Anyway, she is coming along but still struggles with a few techniques that I just can't seem to get through to her. To me, it comes naturally and automatically and I'm having a hard time using the proper terms and demonstrating to her how to fix some issues she is having. I realize most of it is just her simply being a beginner and not having anything developed.
One issue is she is tonguing her notes so that they sound like tat tat rather than taw taw. It is almost like she wants to start each note with her tongue and end each note with her tongue, really cutting off the air supply and "pinching" her notes.
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center. And rather than having a 2/3rds of mouthpiece to the bottom lip, she has it to the upper lip. But when I try and change it, she can barely play. It is almost like that setting is just her normal and works for her... should I try and change that for her?
Another issue is her inability to understand to breath from the diaphragm and not the chest. When she does that, she gets so tense and her sound suffers from it.
Her range is coming along but the higher she goes, the more it sounds like she is strangling the poor horn.
What I am really asking is what are some things I could try with her to help with these issues. She is only 10 and has many more years to develop. She is best in her class for her age so that is good. The most annoying thing is describing to her how to tongue a note to allow it to sound full and resonate, not to make it sound like it is being strangled to death.
Any input or resources would be appreciated. Thanks.
Obviously your are a loving father trying to give your daughter the gift of
being able to "join the music". I can really relate to that, having had the same wish; having tried to do the same "intervention". And you should really take credit for making her interested, even on the road to acquire skills. One expression of love!
As for the advice of the gentlemen above I can only agree, from my amateurish standpoint.
From another standpoint, where I am not an amateur I just would like to add a word of caution, in all humility: First of all your are your daughters father; second to that her trumpetteacher. So the interface is somewhat complicated.
Of course you will display some irritation (one cannot hide this, however loving, body-language conveys), of course you´ll display satisfaction quite inevitable and this will be transmitted through the father-daughter channels; of course she would want to get better, to master the horn, but also she would want to make you happy and at some point these strings will turn out to be difficult to disentangle.
To avoid complications up the line I think it would be of value to provide her with a "neutral" teacher, sooner or later. The teens rapidly approaching meaning she naturally will want to separate, not being your protege but her own project. Tricky this is............and please do not take any offense - only emanating from care. Been there done that myself - can´t say I was successful - but the love&care survived _________________ Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Re: My daughter... my protege
Seymor B Fudd wrote:
Chefcaleb wrote:
Okay, so my I gave my daughter a choice of instruments to choose from for band... the trumpet or cornet. I know, that is really a wide choice and I'm so glad show chose the cornet. I got her an Olds Ambassador for the 1930's.
Anyway, she is coming along but still struggles with a few techniques that I just can't seem to get through to her. To me, it comes naturally and automatically and I'm having a hard time using the proper terms and demonstrating to her how to fix some issues she is having. I realize most of it is just her simply being a beginner and not having anything developed.
One issue is she is tonguing her notes so that they sound like tat tat rather than taw taw. It is almost like she wants to start each note with her tongue and end each note with her tongue, really cutting off the air supply and "pinching" her notes.
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center. And rather than having a 2/3rds of mouthpiece to the bottom lip, she has it to the upper lip. But when I try and change it, she can barely play. It is almost like that setting is just her normal and works for her... should I try and change that for her?
Another issue is her inability to understand to breath from the diaphragm and not the chest. When she does that, she gets so tense and her sound suffers from it.
Her range is coming along but the higher she goes, the more it sounds like she is strangling the poor horn.
What I am really asking is what are some things I could try with her to help with these issues. She is only 10 and has many more years to develop. She is best in her class for her age so that is good. The most annoying thing is describing to her how to tongue a note to allow it to sound full and resonate, not to make it sound like it is being strangled to death.
Any input or resources would be appreciated. Thanks.
Obviously your are a loving father trying to give your daughter the gift of
being able to "join the music". I can really relate to that, having had the same wish; having tried to do the same "intervention". And you should really take credit for making her interested, even on the road to acquire skills. One expression of love!
As for the advice of the gentlemen above I can only agree, from my amateurish standpoint.
From another standpoint, where I am not an amateur I just would like to add a word of caution, in all humility: First of all your are your daughters father; second to that her trumpetteacher. So the interface is somewhat complicated.
Of course you will display some irritation (one cannot hide this, however loving, body-language conveys), of course you´ll display satisfaction quite inevitable and this will be transmitted through the father-daughter channels; of course she would want to get better, to master the horn, but also she would want to make you happy and at some point these strings will turn out to be difficult to disentangle.
To avoid complications up the line I think it would be of value to provide her with a "neutral" teacher, sooner or later. The teens rapidly approaching meaning she naturally will want to separate, not being your protege but her own project. Tricky this is............and please do not take any offense - only emanating from care. Been there done that myself - can´t say I was successful - but the love&care survived
Ooops - did I kill the thread?? Didn´t mean to. Keep on teaching - wrote from own experience so just words of second thoughts. _________________ Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: My daughter... my protege
There are a few things to consider.
1} From the sound of things her mouthpiece she is playing on may not be the best fit for her. Consider finding a more ideal fit. A 10.5C is a consideration.
2} Have her use a "du" sound when she tongues to establish connection and flow.
3} Do not worry too much about mouthpiece placement. Let her place the mouthpiece where it wants to naturally go and let her embouchure develop naturally through correct practice. The placement will take care of itself.
4} Tell her to take a full comfortable breath and focus on the "hoo" sound when producing a tone. Have her watch Harry James the way he breathes so naturally and does not overfill, just easy natural breathing.
5} Tell her to practice at least 50 percent of her practicing softly and slowly. Practice in the piano to mezzo piano range. The rest can be in a good solid mf and always striving for a rich full sound.
6} Have her practice Caruso's 6-note exercise 1-2 times per day.
7} Have her listen to Wynton Marsalis on cornet on his Carnival album. He produces a very rich opulent tone and an excellent sound model to strive for.
Chefcaleb wrote:
Okay, so my I gave my daughter a choice of instruments to choose from for band... the trumpet or cornet. I know, that is really a wide choice and I'm so glad show chose the cornet. I got her an Olds Ambassador for the 1930's.
Anyway, she is coming along but still struggles with a few techniques that I just can't seem to get through to her. To me, it comes naturally and automatically and I'm having a hard time using the proper terms and demonstrating to her how to fix some issues she is having. I realize most of it is just her simply being a beginner and not having anything developed.
One issue is she is tonguing her notes so that they sound like tat tat rather than taw taw. It is almost like she wants to start each note with her tongue and end each note with her tongue, really cutting off the air supply and "pinching" her notes.
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center. And rather than having a 2/3rds of mouthpiece to the bottom lip, she has it to the upper lip. But when I try and change it, she can barely play. It is almost like that setting is just her normal and works for her... should I try and change that for her?
Another issue is her inability to understand to breath from the diaphragm and not the chest. When she does that, she gets so tense and her sound suffers from it.
Her range is coming along but the higher she goes, the more it sounds like she is strangling the poor horn.
What I am really asking is what are some things I could try with her to help with these issues. She is only 10 and has many more years to develop. She is best in her class for her age so that is good. The most annoying thing is describing to her how to tongue a note to allow it to sound full and resonate, not to make it sound like it is being strangled to death.
Any input or resources would be appreciated. Thanks.
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:01 am Post subject: Re: My daughter... my protege
Seymor B Fudd wrote:
Seymor B Fudd wrote:
Chefcaleb wrote:
Okay, so my I gave my daughter a choice of instruments to choose from for band... the trumpet or cornet. I know, that is really a wide choice and I'm so glad show chose the cornet. I got her an Olds Ambassador for the 1930's.
Anyway, she is coming along but still struggles with a few techniques that I just can't seem to get through to her. To me, it comes naturally and automatically and I'm having a hard time using the proper terms and demonstrating to her how to fix some issues she is having. I realize most of it is just her simply being a beginner and not having anything developed.
One issue is she is tonguing her notes so that they sound like tat tat rather than taw taw. It is almost like she wants to start each note with her tongue and end each note with her tongue, really cutting off the air supply and "pinching" her notes.
When she places the mouthpiece to her embouchure, it is slightly to the right, and not in the center. And rather than having a 2/3rds of mouthpiece to the bottom lip, she has it to the upper lip. But when I try and change it, she can barely play. It is almost like that setting is just her normal and works for her... should I try and change that for her?
Another issue is her inability to understand to breath from the diaphragm and not the chest. When she does that, she gets so tense and her sound suffers from it.
Her range is coming along but the higher she goes, the more it sounds like she is strangling the poor horn.
What I am really asking is what are some things I could try with her to help with these issues. She is only 10 and has many more years to develop. She is best in her class for her age so that is good. The most annoying thing is describing to her how to tongue a note to allow it to sound full and resonate, not to make it sound like it is being strangled to death.
Any input or resources would be appreciated. Thanks.
Obviously your are a loving father trying to give your daughter the gift of
being able to "join the music". I can really relate to that, having had the same wish; having tried to do the same "intervention". And you should really take credit for making her interested, even on the road to acquire skills. One expression of love!
As for the advice of the gentlemen above I can only agree, from my amateurish standpoint.
From another standpoint, where I am not an amateur I just would like to add a word of caution, in all humility: First of all your are your daughters father; second to that her trumpetteacher. So the interface is somewhat complicated.
Of course you will display some irritation (one cannot hide this, however loving, body-language conveys), of course you´ll display satisfaction quite inevitable and this will be transmitted through the father-daughter channels; of course she would want to get better, to master the horn, but also she would want to make you happy and at some point these strings will turn out to be difficult to disentangle.
To avoid complications up the line I think it would be of value to provide her with a "neutral" teacher, sooner or later. The teens rapidly approaching meaning she naturally will want to separate, not being your protege but her own project. Tricky this is............and please do not take any offense - only emanating from care. Been there done that myself - can´t say I was successful - but the love&care survived
Ooops - did I kill the thread?? Didn´t mean to. Keep on teaching - wrote from own experience so just words of second thoughts.
LOL, I am so sorry that I never saw this post. I got super sick (and actually still am) and so really dropped off the grid. I actually never really saw most of these replies and feel super bad about not replying to any of them. I appreciate your insight. My daughter does go to school and is in band there. The poor teacher there is super overwhelmed though with so many students and not enough time to give individual attention. We live in a small school district but with a lot of students, particularly in band, which is a good thing. So I give her one on one "lessons" at home. I play everyday at home and she often times plays with me. She has gotten a lot better but still obviously suffers from the usual issues that beginners have. Anyway, y our insight was greatly appreciated. I do have times where I get frustrated with her not catching on to things that come so naturally to me. That is why I came here in the first place. Anyway, thanks again. _________________ Just a guy that likes to toot my own horn. Literally.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I got really sick and still am, but I fell off the grid for a while. My daughter is coming along very well. She has been told that she is the most advanced trumpet player in her band and is always told to move ahead in their practices. Anytime they have to break off for extra practices when players aren't able to play a certain passage, she isn't one of them. So we are very proud of her. Anyway, thanks for your guys inputs. I will apply these techniques when/if needed. Thanks. _________________ Just a guy that likes to toot my own horn. Literally.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I got really sick and still am, but I fell off the grid for a while. My daughter is coming along very well. She has been told that she is the most advanced trumpet player in her band and is always told to move ahead in their practices. Anytime they have to break off for extra practices when players aren't able to play a certain passage, she isn't one of them. So we are very proud of her. Anyway, thanks for your guys inputs. I will apply these techniques when/if needed. Thanks.
Sorry to hear you got sick - hopefully you´ll recover quicker than thought possible!
Nice to hear about your daughter´s progress; there you´ve had a lot more luck than I had, at the time. No instrument but for some pianoplaying in early teens. But - now she has kids of her own and boy, well rather girl, ain´t they musical. "Star trek next generation" _________________ Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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