Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:17 am Post subject: Seeking Trad Tips
What are the best choices a cornet player has when another player has the melody or is soloing?
Obviously, one of them is simply laying out and smiling, but what else? What should I play and what should I avoid so as to not crowd the soloist or any of the other supporting players? _________________ Jim Hatfield
For melody, you can usually do call and response. Play some whole and half note moving lines that compliment the melody. Don't over do it. I play in a band where the clarinet player just does overkill with backing the melody with playing a bunch of notes with noodling lines and it takes away from the melody. If you have a larger group, probably would help to write out some lines for backgrounds. Nothing fancy, but just to compliment on the solos. _________________ Jim New S5 M and MS with C Backbore
Del Quadro Grizzly
Stomvi USA Bb
Getzen Severinsen
Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn
There's no one answer, but you might get some ideas by watching some great cornet (and trumpet) players in action on that sort of music. You can find a lot of examples on YouTube, and I'd suggest looking at some of the very best (they're locals, of course): Bob Schulz, Mike Slack, Ev Farey, Leon Oakley. They sometimes simply sit out, or chat with the person in the next chair about something, and sometimes they play - either simple backup to the solo line, or short accents, or trading eights. _________________ Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....
The other thing is to find recordings/videos of tunes where none cornet/trumpet players are on the head. Pete Fountain would be a prime example. _________________ Jim New S5 M and MS with C Backbore
Del Quadro Grizzly
Stomvi USA Bb
Getzen Severinsen
Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn
My license plate frame certainly does. But there's no real consistency. Of the three local societies which sponsor monthly events close enough for me to drive to them, one has Dixieland in its name, another's acronym spells out TRADJASS and the D is definitely for Dixieland, and the third calls itself the New Orleans Jazz Club... but they all feature pretty much the same lineup of bands and type of music.
One note, though: while Dixieland is the main element of trad jazz, at least if you're programming it with any taste at all, most of the bands I see tend to work in a variety of things that have to be called traditional jazz: 1920's and 1930's novelty tunes, some Bunny, some Dorsey and Miller standards, some original takes on more recent standards, you name it. Some of them even play tunes I personally associate more with movie theater intermission noise from my youth (come on, "Red Roses for a Blue Lady", seriously?). _________________ Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....
Last edited by ChopsGone on Mon May 01, 2017 7:43 am; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:55 am Post subject:
The question of what to play comes up in my band. They are new to dixieland. I usually say start with picking notes out of the melody and play on one and three. So the soloist is reinforced with rhythm. I know it sounds odd but the effect is that it makes the soloist sound even better. It sounds like the soloist is thinking up cool lines around the other instrument line. _________________ Richard
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:54 am Post subject:
Go to the source: Louis Armstrong on second in King Oliver's band, on the recording "Louis Armstrong and King Oliver".
. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:23 pm Post subject:
I try for a mix of familiar tunes as well as lesser known songs like "I'm a Little Blackbird Looking for a Bluebird."
I also like to program tunes that feature specific instruments like "Stranger on the Shore" (clarinet), "The World is Waiting for the Sunrise" (banjo), "Sugar Blues" (trumpet) and of course "Ory's Creole Trombone." _________________ Jim Hatfield
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject:
Sitting out, long notes to form chords under the solo, and contemporaneous noodling (where they often echo each other on the spot!)... examples of all of that are in this clip:
I try for a mix of familiar tunes as well as lesser known songs like "I'm a Little Blackbird Looking for a Bluebird."
I also like to program tunes that feature specific instruments like "Stranger on the Shore" (clarinet), "The World is Waiting for the Sunrise" (banjo), "Sugar Blues" (trumpet) and of course "Ory's Creole Trombone."
For an overabundance of creative ideas, listen to both of Don Neely's groups: Royal Society Jazz Orchestra, Neely's Rhythm Aces. They're both well-represented on YouTube. He's written a number of crowd-pleasing tunes, and the musicians in both groups are as good as you'll find anywhere. Take special note of those tunes whose names are totally unfamiliar to you. _________________ Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking Trad Tips
jhatpro wrote:
What are the best choices a cornet player has when another player has the melody or is soloing?
Obviously, one of them is simply laying out and smiling, but what else? What should I play and what should I avoid so as to not crowd the soloist or any of the other supporting players?
Man, this is where Roy Eldridge RULED, imho. (ETA: did not realise you meant Dixieland). Listen to what he does with a cup mute, way back in the mix. Not stealing anybody's thunder, but making everything better. Great way for your group to practice, too! Your soloist(s) get ample chance to work up their stuff, while you perfect/ revive the craft. And so much fun!
If you're not playing the melody, then think about creating contrast and variety in the backgrounds. Clarinet plays the melody, let her play alone for 16 bars, then add background figures over the bridge: long notes, simple rhythmic figures, soft or loud punctuations.
I like to imagine that I'm arranging big band figures behind the other players. Match the trombone creating simple sustained notes. Sometimes I'll lean over and suggest a rhythm to the player who is not soloing. Or he'll suggest it to me. Use lots of open spaces. Lay out and let one of the other instruments add decorations behind the solos.
It's easy to overplay and make it too complicated. Sometimes be quiet and listen to the band. Lots of things to check--how're the drums doing? How's the tempo? Bass? Banjo? Your job as a trad trumpet is to lead the band and keep things on track. Lots of band just let people solo over the rhy.section. That's cool too. If they take a second chorus, then mix it up. This music tests your abilities to create. Enjoy! _________________ Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet
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