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Trumpetingbynurture
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
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 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:58 am Post subject: High Range Development - Teachers |
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Who are the guys who really know how to teacher the upper and extreme upper registers of the trumpet and who have good success rates?
A few names that come to mind are perhaps:
- Jim Manley
- Roger Ingram
- Bobby Shew
- Pops McLaughlin
- Larry Meregilliano
- Wayne Bergeron
- Jon Faddis
- Jeanne Pocius
- Vaugh Nark
- Roddy O
- Joey Tartell
- Chris LaBabera
- Rich Wetzel
- Bryan Davis
- Patrick Hession
- Steve Patrick - Nashville
- John Harner - Dayton
- Bobby Shew - SKYPE
- Roger Ingram - Chicago
- Matthew Anklan - Cincinnati
- Bruce Haag - Cincinnati
- Jerome Callet
- Bahb Civiletti
- Sylas Xavier
Who else should be on this list?
Plus, A good resource of interviews with lead players:
http://www.trumpetplayersdirectory.com/trumpetrange.html
Last edited by Trumpetingbynurture on Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:31 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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patdublc
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Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 1050
Location: Salisbury, MD
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:51 am Post subject: |
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There are many and you have nailed some of the key ones. I've had good success with what I have learned from Roger and Bobby about breathing and learning to find those upper notes.
I also learned a lot from Jon Faddis and his approach to the upper register. I like the exercises that Joey Tartell has been sharing. I haven't taken a lesson from Joey, but the material is excellent.
Some others that I've learned from are Wayne Bergeron, Jeanne Pocius, and Vaughn Nark. They all have their own approach to developing the upper range but a really important key is that all of their approaches include becoming a better trumpet player. Being a better player and developing better range can occur simultaneously as you become a more efficient player.
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Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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Arjuna
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 240
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: High Range Development - Teachers |
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Lynn Nicholson.
Arturo Sandoval.
| Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | Who are the guys who really know how to teacher the upper and extreme upper registers of the trumpet and who have good success rates?
A few names that come to mind are perhaps:
- Jim Manley
- Roger Ingram
- Bobby Shew
- Pops McLaughlin
Who else should be on this list? |
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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:54 am Post subject: Re: High Range Development - Teachers |
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[quote="Arjuna"]Lynn Nicholson.
Arturo Sandoval.
| Trumpetingbynurture wrote: | Who are the guys who really know how to teacher the upper and extreme upper registers of the trumpet and who have good success rates?
A few names that come to mind are perhaps:
- Jim Manley
- Roger Ingram
- Bobby Shew
- Pops McLaughlin
Who else should be on this list? |
Does Arturo teach much?
Lynn I know doesn't teach any more which is why I didn't include him in my original list. I think most people are aware of Lynn's Methodology now and how to access it. Am looking specifically for teachers who are accessible.
Anyone had a lesson with Adam Rapa? |
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Trumpetingbynurture
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 898
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| patdublc wrote: | There are many and you have nailed some of the key ones. I've had good success with what I have learned from Roger and Bobby about breathing and learning to find those upper notes.
I also learned a lot from Jon Faddis and his approach to the upper register. I like the exercises that Joey Tartell has been sharing. I haven't taken a lesson from Joey, but the material is excellent.
Some others that I've learned from are Wayne Bergeron, Jeanne Pocius, and Vaughn Nark. They all have their own approach to developing the upper range but a really important key is that all of their approaches include becoming a better trumpet player. Being a better player and developing better range can occur simultaneously as you become a more efficient player. |
Tell me more about Jon Faddis' approach.
Are Beregeon, Pocius and Nark easily contactable for lessons? In person only or do they offer Skype sessions? |
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trumpetplanet
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 543
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Jerome Callet
Bahb Civiletti
Sylas Xavier
I know many people don't like their approach but it does work. Jerry has taught a lot of strong players and Sylas has a youtube channel showing the progress of a lot of his pupils. Sure it's not all pretty, but upper range development isn't a pretty endeavour..
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Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.
https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/ |
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Shaft
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 982
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Roddy - O from England has some good books on Embouchure and high range development.
Pops is solid and the only one on that list I have worked with.
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JJMDestino
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Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 257
Location: El Paso
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| patdublc wrote: | There are many and you have nailed some of the key ones. I've had good success with what I have learned from Roger and Bobby about breathing and learning to find those upper notes.
I also learned a lot from Jon Faddis and his approach to the upper register. I like the exercises that Joey Tartell has been sharing. I haven't taken a lesson from Joey, but the material is excellent.
Some others that I've learned from are Wayne Bergeron, Jeanne Pocius, and Vaughn Nark. They all have their own approach to developing the upper range but a really important key is that all of their approaches include becoming a better trumpet player. Being a better player and developing better range can occur simultaneously as you become a more efficient player. |
I studied with Joey. His approach most certainly worked for me. |
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Maybe I'm an exception but I never had a lesson specifically associated with upper register development. I did write Roy Stevens once back in the day but had no one on one. Not w8ith him. Then during the same year I was coached by one of Roy's students. Yet the Stevens method wasn't such a good method for me. Some parts helped a lot. Others were not only useless but counter productive.
Then I visited with a mouthpiece maker closely assocjated with high note artists. However most of the knowledge I gained from him again was through selective usage of his ideas. Taking that which was helpful and throwing out what wasn't.
And perhaps I am a little fortunate in the range department. As my high F & G developed during my mid teens. Granted I stayed stymied at the high G for a good many years after. However the high G is a note most trumpet players never attain anyway. I'm certain that this is correctable however it's surely much better to cut off at the G rather than the mere high C where perhaps some 98% of trumpet players live their whole lives. Yet when you do have a G? You can at least blow lead. Stuck at high C? Not so much.
Somewhere I read that "eventually we become our own teachers". True enough.
Another interesting matter which I've long obseved is the tendency of high note players to advocate only that which works well for themselves. I think there's about a half dozen tricks often employed which may assist a trumpet player to gain the use of the upper register. Probably more. So just for reference I will list them. Not that I myself use all of them as at least several are totally opposing actions. As we'll see.
Playing pedals to learn muscle usage function and pucker more lip into the mouthpiece.
NOT playing pedals because in some cases certain trumpet players can get twisted out of shape by them. As Brisbois was once quoted.
"Push your jaw out and blow up for high notes".
"Bring your jaw in, curl lower lip over the lower teeth and blow down".
(As mentioned some of these suggestions run 180° counter opposite each other...)
Practice free buzzing exercises.
Use the PETE or Pencil exercise, isometrics.
Play with minimal contact pressure. Like with horn laying on one palm only.
Playing with "balanced pressure". This where even strong arm pressure may be used. Just so long as the lip pucker balances the increased pressure.
There's probably more ideas but these just came off the top of my head. I wrote them down to express this point:
Whichever of the above concepts do help a person break though his cut-off point?
This trumpet player will usually become an advocate for the system which sponsored the idea. This the reason pedal tone advocates usually tell their own students to stay with pedal tone studies. Similarly the non pedal tone players with good high notes will likely tell their students to avoid the pedals.
I may have my own biases too. I kinda see mouthpiece selection as critical. Even though I know trumpet players who've spent their whole lives with the same piece that came with the horn.
What I mean is that there exists a tendency of most teachers to advocate that which works best for thenselves. And there's probably nothing wrong wjth them doing this so long as their student is also a good fit for their same approach.
Thus sometimes a student of the upper register might consider learning from various persons.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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RussellDDixon
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Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 832
Location: Mason, OH
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Steve Patrick - Nashville
John Harner - Dayton
Bobby Shew - SKYPE
Roger Ingram - Chicago
Matthew Anklan - Cincinnati
Bruce Haag - Cincinnati
Just to name a few solid trumpet teachers who are also capable of helping you with your range. Just playing Clarke and Schlossberg with the correct equipment has worked for me.
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Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece
Last edited by RussellDDixon on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetplanet wrote: | | ... Sure it's not all pretty, but upper range development isn't a pretty endeavour.. |
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but it's that attitude that creates the "Johnny High Note" players who can't do much of anything else besides pop tiny little mouthpieces into their horns and scream a few notes that impress some but annoy most.
As my teacher Claude Gordon used to say, "High notes are inevitable - if you're practicing correctly they'll develop right along with the rest of the machine."
The playing abilities of his many students who filled the hotel bands of Vegas and Reno in the '70's and '80's and even in some cases, to this day (Pete Bresciani is one of the few, if not the only trumpet player in Vegas to have enjoyed a non-stop career there since the mid 1980's), and others who played and still play in the Studios of Hollywood (listen to Bobby O'Donnell's lead playing on the CHiPs theme), and my own experience as a player and a teacher have confirmed for me that Claude was absolutely right.
Bill Hicks, mentioned in an earlier post, and also Jeff Purtle teach in the way Claude Gordon taught and each gets similar results. I also teach what Claude taught me, with my own experience as a professional player on two continents for more than 30 years thrown into the mix.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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trumpet.sanity
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2016
Posts: 763
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | | trumpetplanet wrote: | | ... Sure it's not all pretty, but upper range development isn't a pretty endeavour.. |
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but it's that attitude that creates the "Johnny High Note" players who can't do much of anything else besides pop tiny little mouthpieces into their horns and scream a few notes that impress some but annoy most.
As my teacher Claude Gordon used to say, "High notes are inevitable - if you're practicing correctly they'll develop right along with the rest of the machine." The playing abilities of his many students who filled the hotel bands of Vegas and Reno in the '70's and '80's and even in some cases, to this day (Pete Bresciani is one of the few, if not the only trumpet player in Vegas to have enjoyed a non-stop career there since the mid 1980's), and others who played and still play in the Studios of Hollywood (listen to Bobby O'Donnell's lead playing on the CHiPs theme), and my own experience as a player and a teacher have confirmed for me that Claude was absolutely right.
Bill Hicks, mentioned in an earlier post, and also Jeff Purtle teach in the way Claude Gordon taught and gets similar results. I also teach what Claude taught me, with my own experience as a professional player on two continents for more than 30 years thrown into the mix.
Best wishes,
John Mohan |
I don't understand why there has to be such controversy over mouthpiece size, and teaching methods.
I don't believe there is a one size fits all for either. Some guys can play on smaller mouthpieces, some can't. Some say a 3C is perfect, while others feel a 3C is as big as a shot glass.
Most guys I know who play on bigger mouthpieces have never learned how to play on smaller stuff. And when they "pop in" a small piece, they have little to no success.
Same with teaching methods. They are all theories that some find success with and some don't. We all have different dental structure, lip shape, breathing habits, lung capacities, and different sets of critical thinking skills.
I love learning, and hearing what has made different people successful, and never dismiss anybody's opinions on what works for them and why. And most times I try to see if it works for me as well. |
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razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The above confusion is what makes Doc Reinhardt's approach so helpful, since he accounts for individual differences. To teach per his methods, one has to learn all the variables to be sure your student is on a good path for progress. Chris LaBarbera (aka MrHollywood on TH) is the main go to guy and does lessons via skype. If Dave Sheetz is teaching again he has had more lessons from Doc than anyone else alive, so he's a very good choice. |
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trumpetplanet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 543
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:04 am Post subject: |
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John, your comment is intended directly to "rain on my parade", please don't deny it. I'm ignoring your comments because they are not relevant to this conversation as demonstrated by the off-topic replies that you have attracted. I am more than happy to take that conversation further but not here.
Having read through 15 years of posts in which you do nothing but troll anyone who doesn't bow down to Claude Gordon I doubt that a sensible conversation will ever occur when you're a part of it.
_________________
UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.
https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/ |
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GCJax
New Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Good thorough and thoughtful post. thumbsup!
| Lionel wrote: | Maybe I'm an exception but I never had a lesson specifically associated with upper register development. I did write Roy Stevens once back in the day but had no one on one. Not w8ith him. Then during the same year I was coached by one of Roy's students. Yet the Stevens method wasn't such a good method for me. Some parts helped a lot. Others were not only useless but counter productive.
Then I visited with a mouthpiece maker closely assocjated with high note artists. However most of the knowledge I gained from him again was through selective usage of his ideas. Taking that which was helpful and throwing out what wasn't.
And perhaps I am a little fortunate in the range department. As my high F & G developed during my mid teens. Granted I stayed stymied at the high G for a good many years after. However the high G is a note most trumpet players never attain anyway. I'm certain that this is correctable however it's surely much better to cut off at the G rather than the mere high C where perhaps some 98% of trumpet players live their whole lives. Yet when you do have a G? You can at least blow lead. Stuck at high C? Not so much.
Somewhere I read that "eventually we become our own teachers". True enough.
Another interesting matter which I've long obseved is the tendency of high note players to advocate only that which works well for themselves. I think there's about a half dozen tricks often employed which may assist a trumpet player to gain the use of the upper register. Probably more. So just for reference I will list them. Not that I myself use all of them as at least several are totally opposing actions. As we'll see.
Playing pedals to learn muscle usage function and pucker more lip into the mouthpiece.
NOT playing pedals because in some cases certain trumpet players can get twisted out of shape by them. As Brisbois was once quoted.
"Push your jaw out and blow up for high notes".
"Bring your jaw in, curl lower lip over the lower teeth and blow down".
(As mentioned some of these suggestions run 180° counter opposite each other...)
Practice free buzzing exercises.
Use the PETE or Pencil exercise, isometrics.
Play with minimal contact pressure. Like with horn laying on one palm only.
Playing with "balanced pressure". This where even strong arm pressure may be used. Just so long as the lip pucker balances the increased pressure.
There's probably more ideas but these just came off the top of my head. I wrote them down to express this point:
Whichever of the above concepts do help a person break though his cut-off point?
This trumpet player will usually become an advocate for the system which sponsored the idea. This the reason pedal tone advocates usually tell their own students to stay with pedal tone studies. Similarly the non pedal tone players with good high notes will likely tell their students to avoid the pedals.
I may have my own biases too. I kinda see mouthpiece selection as critical. Even though I know trumpet players who've spent their whole lives with the same piece that came with the horn.
What I mean is that there exists a tendency of most teachers to advocate that which works best for thenselves. And there's probably nothing wrong wjth them doing this so long as their student is also a good fit for their same approach.
Thus sometimes a student of the upper register might consider learning from various persons. |
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kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetplanet wrote: | | Sure it's not all pretty, but upper range development isn't a pretty endeavour.. |
I don't know you or John but I really am not trying to rain on your parade when I say that I try to make all aspects of my trumpet playing pleasing to the ear. I don't have good range but I always try to make the note sound good. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point of view? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Back to the topic, though, has anyone listed someone in the greater Seattle area? Lots of Jazz and Legit chops around here but I don't know the screamers...
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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| kevin_soda wrote: | | trumpetplanet wrote: | | Sure it's not all pretty, but upper range development isn't a pretty endeavour.. |
I don't know you or John but I really am not trying to rain on your parade when I say that I try to make all aspects of my trumpet playing pleasing to the ear. I don't have good range but I always try to make the note sound good. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point of view? |
I think the main point of contention here is that sometimes allowing ourselves to sound bad is necessary for progress. Like anything else that pertains to practicing, we have to know when to engage in that, and how. While there is a lot to the idea of "let your sound be your guide," some of us just respond better, with some things, by paying attention to the mechanics. Which usually does result in something that sounds less pretty, for a while.
Of course it can be difficult to take a step in that direction, not knowing what the end result may be. Guidance from a teacher you trust can help greatly with that, assuming that trust is warranted. |
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Jerry Freedman
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Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 2476
Location: Burlington, Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Jeanne Pocius in the Boston area |
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Al Innella
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Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 755
Location: Levittown NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| Call Rich Wetzel,he lives in your area.He was in Maynard's band and now leads his own big band in Tacoma. |
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Winghorn
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2159
Location: Olympia, Washington
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Rich Wetzel can hit some high notes but was not, to my knowlege, in Maynard's band. He does not mention being in Maynard's band on his web site, which I am sure he would if that were the case. Rich and I played together in a local community college band many years ago, where I was 1st trumpet. And no, I can not hit high notes like Rich.
It was a concert band.
Steve |
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