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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: Cornets for Jazz |
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Hi
I had a few moments, so thought that I'd start a thread on people's opinions on what vintage/modern cornet makes/models are good for Jazz?
This is just for interests sake rather than me actually thinking of buying one.
Although really a brass band cornet, I sometimes use my Yamaha Xeno with a Kanstul 3C variant for some numbers in my Jazz band. It works well enough for my needs.
Take Care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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mm55
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1412
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: |
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I am very happy with my Yamaha YCR-2330S for jazz. Warren Vaché, Jr. has performed using the similar YCR-2330 (lacquer finish), achieving a classic and traditional jazz sound.
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'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2649
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Conn 80A
King Master
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Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet |
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jadickson
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1294
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Mike Sailors played (plays?) an old Besson 2-20 with the Hot Sardines, using a Warburton mouthpiece. Here is a great recording, where he takes a solo on that cornet at about 1:30 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kte8V7Zm3t8
And of course the Conn 80A was designed specifically for early jazz. Bix Beiderbecke etc.
I have a Conn 12A that has a great jazz sound, but the horn is very worn out and the valves are way out of alignment.
I hope this helps.
I have tried many times to make jazz cornet work, but have not been successful. I just can't make them do what I want them to do. Ironically the closest I have come is a beat up King 604 (student level cornet with shepherds crook) that I found in the back of my school band room. |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mm55 wrote: | | I am very happy with my Yamaha YCR-2330S for jazz. Warren Vaché, Jr. has performed using the similar YCR-2330 (lacquer finish), achieving a classic and traditional jazz sound. |
Hi mm55
Interesting, thanks. I wonder how the sound profile differs from my Xeno, as it seems to work ok for me for Jazz.
Take Care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Tony Scodwell
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1960
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: Jazz cornet for sale |
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Bobby Hackett once placed an ad in the AFofM local 802 paper listing his King cornet for sale:
"King cornet used by Bobby Hackett for sale. Never used in the upper register".
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | Conn 80A
King Master |
Hi Richard III
Thanks very much
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jadickson wrote: | Mike Sailors played (plays?) an old Besson 2-20 with the Hot Sardines, using a Warburton mouthpiece. Here is a great recording, where he takes a solo on that cornet at about 1:30 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kte8V7Zm3t8
And of course the Conn 80A was designed specifically for early jazz. Bix Beiderbecke etc.
I have a Conn 12A that has a great jazz sound, but the horn is very worn out and the valves are way out of alignment.
I hope this helps.
Hi jadickson
It does, thanks.
Thanks very much for posting the link. Very nice playing!
I have tried many times to make jazz cornet work, but have not been successful. I just can't make them do what I want them to do. Ironically the closest I have come is a beat up King 604 (student level cornet with shepherds crook) that I found in the back of my school band room.
Again interesting, thanks. Admittedly I'm not much of a Jazz player at all, but for Trad Jazz and Blues, for the little I ask of it, my Xeno cornet seems to work well with a 3C variant. I find this to be a very flexible cornet with fairly loose slots, at least with this mouthpiece.
Take Care
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Last edited by Louise Finch on Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Jazz cornet for sale |
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| Tony Scodwell wrote: | Bobby Hackett once placed an ad in the AFofM local 802 paper listing his King cornet for sale:
"King cornet used by Bobby Hackett for sale. Never used in the upper register".
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Hi
You could say the same for mine. None of my instruments have been above a G above high C, and on a daily basis live at and below D/Eb above high C.
Take Care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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dstdenis
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 2123
Location: Atlanta GA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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I recently found a blog post about Shaye Cohn, of Tuba Skinny, and her cornet. I went searching the internet for this after listening to Tuba Skinny's album Blue Chime Stomp and Shaye's wonderful cornet sound. The blogger thinks that she might be playing a very old Yamaha long cornet.
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Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dstdenis wrote: | | I recently found a blog post about Shaye Cohn, of Tuba Skinny, and her cornet. I went searching the internet for this after listening to Tuba Skinny's album Blue Chime Stomp and Shaye's wonderful cornet sound. The blogger thinks that she might be playing a very old Yamaha long cornet. |
Hi dstdenis
I'll check her out, thanks very much.
Take Care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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jadickson
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1294
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Lou, you should post a video of you playing jazz on your Xeno. I would love to hear how it sounds.
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Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jadickson wrote: | | Lou, you should post a video of you playing jazz on your Xeno. I would love to hear how it sounds. |
Hi jadickson
Sorry, definitely not lol. Seriously the only Jazz I do is my husband's 12 piece sort of Jazz band, which plays a lot of his own arrangements of American song book tunes and latin. I often play the melody on trumpet for the more up tempo numbers (there are three of us overall on trumpet/flugel), play some ballads on flugel, and colour some tunes with an obligato style flute part.
We play things such as All the things you are, The way you look tonight, Blue Bossa, Call Me, Someone to watch over me etc. The only trad type numbers we currently do are, I'm beginning to see the light and T-Bone blues. My husband is a modern Jazz player and quite a lot of the tunes have a section for improvised soloing. Not really reading chord symbols, I rarely have a go.
Basically, I am a brass band and concert band cornet player. Because I play cornet in other settings, I thought that I would start this thread to improve my knowledge of other cornet applications.
Take Care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7009
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Made for jazz.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Grits Burgh
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Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 805
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Lou, I too am very interested in cornets at the moment. I would think that a BBB shepherd's crook cornet would be a wonderful horn for ballads like "My Funny Valentine" or "Body and Soul." Since you have such an instrument (and I don't), I would like to hear your opinion on the subject.
As for dixieland style jazz, I would think that just about any cornet or trumpet would do. Both my Bach Strad and my Schilke HC1 (both trumpets) work fine for dixieland, though the Schilke is better suited for that in my opinion.
The BBB cornet would probably be least suited for lead trumpet playing in a big band or Dizzy style bebop - but in the hands of Arturo Sandoval, it would probably even work for that (I think that Arturo could play lead on a kazoo). I wonder if any cornets are well suited for these applications.
Gritts
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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oxleyk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9343
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I recently bought a 1966 Holton Stratodyne cornet and I think it would be very well suited to jazz and/or concert band. The Conn 80A gets a vote from me, too. A pic of the Holton:
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Ed Hernandez
Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 335
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Just bought a Bach CR301 on eBay this week at a very reasonable price. Looks to be in pretty good shape. It should be here next week. Can't wait to try it out. Any feedback on this cornet student model?
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"If you find a job you really like, you'll never work a day in your life".
Yamaha YTR 9335 NY
Yamaha 8310Z Flugel |
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jadickson
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1294
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone tried to make it work with an Olds Ambassador cornet?
How did that work for you? |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5463
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Grits Burgh wrote: | Lou, I too am very interested in cornets at the moment. I would think that a BBB shepherd's crook cornet would be a wonderful horn for ballads like "My Funny Valentine" or "Body and Soul." Since you have such an instrument (and I don't), I would like to hear your opinion on the subject.
Hi Grits
I don't mind sharing my opinion at all, although I'm really not much of a Jazz player, so others may totally disagree.
I really think that it would depend on the particular shepherd's crook cornet. Yes, for my Bach 184ML (with the yellow brass bell), which although of course I am nowhere nowhere near the player of John Faddis, has the type of sound with a Bach 3C, as on oxleyk's post showing a clip of John Faddis playing Bix Beidebecke's horn, even thought the Bach 184ML has a shepherd's crook.
Regarding more typical brass band short model cornets such as the Sovereign/Prestige and Maestro/Xeno/Neo, I personally don't think they have the right type of sound. I think that you'd get away with it if using a trumpet-style mouthpiece, but my experience of especially the Sovereign and to some extent the Xeno, is that it is difficult to get these cornets to work well with a trumpet-style mouthpiece. A Curry DC cup comes to mind as a possibility in these circumstances.
I'd personally choose flugel for these types of ballads.
As for dixieland style jazz, I would think that just about any cornet or trumpet would do. Both my Bach Strad and my Schilke HC1 (both trumpets) work fine for dixieland, though the Schilke is better suited for that in my opinion.
You are probably right, although I feel that cornet would possibly lend itself better to dixieland.
The BBB cornet would probably be least suited for lead trumpet playing in a big band or Dizzy style bebop - but in the hands of Arturo Sandoval, it would probably even work for that (I think that Arturo could play lead on a kazoo). I wonder if any cornets are well suited for these applications.
I used to play lead in an old style dance band, waltzes, fox trots, quick steps, latin etc., with a lot of the repertoire above the stave, but the high point of the programme only being a high D on the end of In the Mood. I'd often practise the charts on my Bach 184ML cornet/Bach 3C combination, and when played in this style, sounds pretty much like my Bach 37 trumpet. I however don't really think that you would want to use even this cornet for full on lead trumpet playing with a lead trumpet style mouthpiece.
I would have thought that the Sovereign/Prestige and Maestro/Xeno/Neo would be a very poor choice. In my opinion it would be difficult to get them to play well with the right type of mouthpiece for this type of playing, and you would have to really work to get the right type of sound and articulations. Sure I imagine that Arturo could do it, but he would in my opinion have to work way to hard, as he would using completely the wrong tool for the job.
Anyway that is just my opinion.
Take Care
Lou
Gritts |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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