Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Cornets for Jazz
[quote="Honkie"]
dstdenis wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
I'm aware of only a few modern long cornets at the pro level still in production:
Bach 181
Flip Oakes Wild Thing American (by Kanstul)
Schilke A1 (hybrid long cornet with shepherds crook)
I bought a used Schilke A1 six months ago and have been using it as my main horn. I completely love it! It can focus and project like a trumpet, but has the core and richness of a cornet. It's responsive, efficient, and the valves are super-smooth. I play jazz in small combos and spend a lot of time in the woodshed. The horn is always a joy to play. Hats off to Schilke
Hi Honkie
Sounds great. Thanks very much for sharing.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:10 am Post subject:
giakara wrote:
etc-etc wrote:
giakara wrote:
LB Getzen eterna 800,850 are very common in trad jazz circles .
This is a home recording with my eterna 850 and a Purviance 9A piece and a home made cup mute.
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:13 am Post subject:
p76 wrote:
Bob Pattie, down under here in Ballarat and for many years principal cornet of the City of Ballarat Brass Band also played trad jazz for many years in groups such as the Golden City Seven and Steve Waddell's Creole Bells. The Creole Bells toured the US on more than one occasion I think. You'll see Bob fire up at about 2:30 in this video.
Those of you with eagle eyes will note that he's using a Round Stamp Sovereign, I think belonging to the Band.
Just goes to show it's in how you think about what you're playing, more than the equipment.
I totally agree.
That said, I'd be going for a long cornet myself - I have an Olds Ambassador, and have used it, and it's played fine. Mind you, with the Bach C cup mpc. I use for that, either of my Shepherd Crook cornets would do it as well.
I again agree, but it probably makes it easier if you play an instrument which has an inherent sound nearer to what you are aiming for, and I feel that a typical long model cornet would probably have a sound more easily suited for Jazz.
Cheers,
Roger
Take Care
Lou
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:15 am Post subject:
Turkle wrote:
Trumpetmannj wrote:
King master
I have a gorgeous 1930s King Master with the absolute most heartbreakingly beautiful sound. The only problem is that the tuning is... idiosyncratic at best, nightmarish at worst. I'm pretty sure the valves leak like a sieve. Not sure it's worth paying for a $600 valve rebuild on a $100 horn. Hmm.
Hi Turkle
Thanks very much. That is a shame.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:17 am Post subject:
Trumpetmannj wrote:
I bought a time capsule king master super 20 from the 50's for $300. No intonation issues and I play it all the time when I have trad gigs. No sense dumping money into a valve replate
Sounds great!
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject:
giakara wrote:
LB Getzen eterna 800,850 are very common in trad jazz circles .
This is a home recording with my eterna 850 and a Purviance 9A piece and a home made cup mute.
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject:
p76 wrote:
Bob Pattie, down under here in Ballarat and for many years principal cornet of the City of Ballarat Brass Band also played trad jazz for many years in groups such as the Golden City Seven and Steve Waddell's Creole Bells. The Creole Bells toured the US on more than one occasion I think. You'll see Bob fire up at about 2:30 in this video.
Thanks very much, I really enjoyed this. I haven't done much trad, and am definitely a straight player, but Bob Pattie definitely knows what he is doing, and on a round stamp Sovereign, well I never! I guess my Xeno will do just fine.
Thanks very much for posting this. Made me really smile.
Take Care
Lou
Those of you with eagle eyes will note that he's using a Round Stamp Sovereign, I think belonging to the Band.
Just goes to show it's in how you think about what you're playing, more than the equipment.
That said, I'd be going for a long cornet myself - I have an Olds Ambassador, and have used it, and it's played fine. Mind you, with the Bach C cup mpc. I use for that, either of my Shepherd Crook cornets would do it as well.
Cheers,
Roger
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
If you're playing Trad or Hot Jazz, you'll want a horn that can lead the band and project. Over the decades players found long cornets to use and then chose mouthpieces that moved the cornet toward the brighter trumpet sound. Some examples: Conn 80A and the King Master horns. Mouthpiece sensitive instruments, you can dial in a C-cup mouthpiece and really honk on them. Think of Rex Stewart or Wild Bill Davison. These guys have ripping sounds that can tear up the room.
They sure weren't looking for a classical, symphonic cornet sound. Many of the great classical players (Herbert L Clarke, Walter Smith, etc) used the same instrumets (King Master cornets) and with the help of V-shaped mouthpieces made the horns work for them.) Rex and Ray Nance also played cornets in the Ellington band and managed to keep up with the trumpets beside them while adding a unique richness to the complex trumpet section sound. Of course you can find many exceptions to the long cornets--think of Bobby Hackett and his ability to lead his groups with his SH cornets.
Today you can find vintage King and Conn cornets for sale at very reasonable prices and once you match them with the right mouthpiece, you can have a lot of fun. Some of the young players in NYC and around the country who are part of the recent hot jazz revival are making it a point to find vintage horns and they even dress like it's 1929 in search of a sort of authenticity.
Nowadays I see trad players also playing contemporary cornets--Getzen Eternas, Bach 181s, pujes, and SH cornets. I see plenty of people who stick to their trumpets too. They play great but to my ear, don't quite have the right sound. (But that's just me.)
I was practicing on a 1917 King Master this morning and thinking how nice a horn it is. Lots of vintage horns still out there that are players! Try one. _________________ Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject:
Oncewasaplayer wrote:
If you're playing Trad or Hot Jazz, you'll want a horn that can lead the band and project. Over the decades players found long cornets to use and then chose mouthpieces that moved the cornet toward the brighter trumpet sound. Some examples: Conn 80A and the King Master horns. Mouthpiece sensitive instruments, you can dial in a C-cup mouthpiece and really honk on them. Think of Rex Stewart or Wild Bill Davison. These guys have ripping sounds that can tear up the room.
They sure weren't looking for a classical, symphonic cornet sound. Many of the great classical players (Herbert L Clarke, Walter Smith, etc) used the same instrumets (King Master cornets) and with the help of V-shaped mouthpieces made the horns work for them.) Rex and Ray Nance also played cornets in the Ellington band and managed to keep up with the trumpets beside them while adding a unique richness to the complex trumpet section sound. Of course you can find many exceptions to the long cornets--think of Bobby Hackett and his ability to lead his groups with his SH cornets.
Today you can find vintage King and Conn cornets for sale at very reasonable prices and once you match them with the right mouthpiece, you can have a lot of fun. Some of the young players in NYC and around the country who are part of the recent hot jazz revival are making it a point to find vintage horns and they even dress like it's 1929 in search of a sort of authenticity.
Nowadays I see trad players also playing contemporary cornets--Getzen Eternas, Bach 181s, pujes, and SH cornets. I see plenty of people who stick to their trumpets too. They play great but to my ear, don't quite have the right sound. (But that's just me.)
I was practicing on a 1917 King Master this morning and thinking how nice a horn it is. Lots of vintage horns still out there that are players! Try one.
Hi Oncewasaplayer
Very interesting, thanks.
A classical, symphonic cornet sound or a brass band cornet tone, is to be honest really what I'm looking for most of the time, and I'm not much good at trad Jazz but the clips on this thread sound great.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
If you're playing Trad or Hot Jazz, you'll want a horn that can lead the band and project. Over the decades players found long cornets to use and then chose mouthpieces that moved the cornet toward the brighter trumpet sound. Some examples: Conn 80A and the King Master horns. Mouthpiece sensitive instruments, you can dial in a C-cup mouthpiece and really honk on them. Think of Rex Stewart or Wild Bill Davison. These guys have ripping sounds that can tear up the room.
They sure weren't looking for a classical, symphonic cornet sound. Many of the great classical players (Herbert L Clarke, Walter Smith, etc) used the same instrumets (King Master cornets) and with the help of V-shaped mouthpieces made the horns work for them.) Rex and Ray Nance also played cornets in the Ellington band and managed to keep up with the trumpets beside them while adding a unique richness to the complex trumpet section sound. Of course you can find many exceptions to the long cornets--think of Bobby Hackett and his ability to lead his groups with his SH cornets.
Today you can find vintage King and Conn cornets for sale at very reasonable prices and once you match them with the right mouthpiece, you can have a lot of fun. Some of the young players in NYC and around the country who are part of the recent hot jazz revival are making it a point to find vintage horns and they even dress like it's 1929 in search of a sort of authenticity.
Nowadays I see trad players also playing contemporary cornets--Getzen Eternas, Bach 181s, pujes, and SH cornets. I see plenty of people who stick to their trumpets too. They play great but to my ear, don't quite have the right sound. (But that's just me.)
I was practicing on a 1917 King Master this morning and thinking how nice a horn it is. Lots of vintage horns still out there that are players! Try one.
Hey, wait a minute. A Pujé is a trumpet, despite its appearance. It certainly makes a pretty good cornet surrogate with the right mouthpiece, though. _________________ Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Hey, wait a minute. A Pujé is a trumpet, despite its appearance. It certainly makes a pretty good cornet surrogate with the right mouthpiece, though.
_________________
I was excited about the concept. I would think it had it all. But all the videos of it being played left me quite disappointed. All so far sound like it had a sock in it. Anybody have an example of one being played that they can point to as having a pleasant tone? _________________ Richard
Hey, wait a minute. A Pujé is a trumpet, despite its appearance. It certainly makes a pretty good cornet surrogate with the right mouthpiece, though.
_________________
I was excited about the concept. I would think it had it all. But all the videos of it being played left me quite disappointed. All so far sound like it had a sock in it. Anybody have an example of one being played that they can point to as having a pleasant tone?
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:56 am Post subject:
etc-etc wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Quote:
Hey, wait a minute. A Pujé is a trumpet, despite its appearance. It certainly makes a pretty good cornet surrogate with the right mouthpiece, though.
_________________
I was excited about the concept. I would think it had it all. But all the videos of it being played left me quite disappointed. All so far sound like it had a sock in it. Anybody have an example of one being played that they can point to as having a pleasant tone?
Steve Dillard sounds good on everything, but although of course this doesn't sound remotely bad, I've liked his sound better on other clips, and can't in all honesty say I particularly like the sound of this trumpet either.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Mike. I love your stuff. But here is not an example of selling the horn. How about an example where you stay on one note and we can hear the sound. This one had so much trilling shakes of remarkable technique that I couldn't hear the horn. Thanks. _________________ Richard
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