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Arjuna
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 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: Miles Davis |
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There is no greater artist than Miles Davis.
Miles changed music 5 times.
Miles sound is like no other with a vulnerability that is very rare.
Miles is like the Picasso of jazz. |
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PH
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Miles Davis |
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| Arjuna wrote: | There is no greater artist than Miles Davis.
Miles changed music 5 times.
Miles sound is like no other with a vulnerability that is very rare.
Miles is like the Picasso of jazz. |
Absolutely. The most important musician in the history of jazz.
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Arjuna
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Miles Davis |
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+1
| PH wrote: | | Arjuna wrote: | There is no greater artist than Miles Davis.
Miles changed music 5 times.
Miles sound is like no other with a vulnerability that is very rare.
Miles is like the Picasso of jazz. |
Absolutely. The most important musician in the history of jazz. |
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Has the Trumpet Herald become a place for hit and run haikus and existentialism?
However, I'll add that I love listening to Miles up until the "Cool" and "Blue" period. I enjoy and respect Gil Evans writing and period music ala Sketches of Spain, but that's as cerebral as I can get.
Electric Miles, Bitches Brew onwards, I don't consider to be jazz. Whatever the pop stuff that was being "created" in the 80s was just jive.
Had Miles not come from a wealthy family, with the ability to provide a steady flow of booze and dope to Bird, I don't think he would ever have had the opportunities he had following those early days. |
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american boy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpet. sanity; I don't get it; Miles never stayed long in the same..he was always moving forward.He could have very easily played "If i were a bell" and"Bye Bye Blackbird" forever, and would have sold out any venue in the world doing it...He seemed to enjoy Bands like Sly & the Family Stone,and I don't find a thing wrong with that..I find it even way honorable that a successful artist thrives to find new landscapes,and to say that he was getting Bird stoned for musical opportunities is beyond nuts..You must be in middle school |
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PH
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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To quote Hal Galper, "Jazz isn't for everybody. It's better than that." It's okay if some people can't keep up.
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I stand corrected. Cindy Lauper and Michael Jackson covers are super creative and innovative expressions of jazz. Vamping over one chord on an entire B side of a record? Just amazing. |
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BeboppinFool
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Miles Davis |
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| PH wrote: | | Absolutely. The most important musician in the history of jazz. |
Louis Armstrong has that distinction, in my estimation.
Charlie Parker is a very close second, but nobody else could have ever been number one without the trailblazing of Pops.
Miles would not have even gotten heard had it not been for Bird. Miles may be in the top 10 jazz stylists of all time, but I would never place him in the number one position. Sometimes I think Miles' "mystique" is like "The Emperor's New Clothes."
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american boy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Trumpet.sanity; Wondering where you stand on when Herbie played things like the "Headhunters" album,or Wayne Shorter with Weather Report? For sure those bands and albums were a total departure from what was happening before,but i consider that music as as 'Valid" as anything..My point is that a genius such as Miles Davis certainly earned the right to record whatever he wanted,and for whatever reason..I call that respect |
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american boy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bebop fool; I couldn't disagree more; Miles would have absoulutley been a major voice,no matter the chronology;;Sure Bird and Diz paved the way,but what Miles brought to the dance was just as vital..Could he play like Diz? well,no one IMO could touch what Dizzy did in that period..absolute genius through the roof; However,Miles found a way to be a huge voice in that period,in his own (sweet) way |
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Al Porcino addressed this in a radio interview years back. Granted his politics are not considered mainstream and I'm sure ruffle some feathers, but there is some validity to his points.
If you can muster the thirty minutes of some straight talk regarding the post jazz era, and the direction of promotion of modern jazz "artists" you might get a different perspective.
Be forewarned, political correctness be damned in this interview:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ikFrPt7ZCFs |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one and most smell.
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PH
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Miles Davis |
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| BeboppinFool wrote: | | PH wrote: | | Absolutely. The most important musician in the history of jazz. |
Louis Armstrong has that distinction, in my estimation.
Charlie Parker is a very close second, but nobody else could have ever been number one without the trailblazing of Pops.
Miles would not have even gotten heard had it not been for Bird. Miles may be in the top 10 jazz stylists of all time, but I would never place him in the number one position. Sometimes I think Miles' "mystique" is like "The Emperor's New Clothes." |
Anthropologically, a agree with you to a degree. He is the source of the DNA. Without Louis there is no jazz. His innovations are the foundations from which every other jazz musician sprung. However, (to me) his music isn't very interesting.
On the other hand Miles created multiple major trends in the music and (with his great BANDS) made definitive statements in each of those styles, from Birth of the Cool to Working/Relaxin etc, to the great records with Gil, to the Herbie/Ron/Tony band, to Bitches Brew, to Tutu. In this respect he is a type of 20th century giant analogous to Picasso or Stravinsky in their respective idioms of creativity.
I do agree with you about Bird, but he really only created/innovated once and basically played the same way from Jay McShann's Hootie Blues until the day he died.
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Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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1jazzyalex
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Miles Davis |
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| PH wrote: | | Without Louis there is no jazz. |
'Nuff said. Lots of people have this image of him being "hokey" but I was listening to him last night and he's doing a LOT in even simple-sounding things.
I think people tend to remember him more for things like Hello Dolly and so on, and right about then the "rhythm and blues" craze was going and that was much more simple music. The stuff Louis was doing up into the 40s is pretty amazing.
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PH
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Pops never had a band that could keep up with him. That is always a problem to my ears.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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Richard III
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Miles Davis |
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| PH wrote: | | BeboppinFool wrote: | | PH wrote: | | Absolutely. The most important musician in the history of jazz. |
Louis Armstrong has that distinction, in my estimation.
Charlie Parker is a very close second, but nobody else could have ever been number one without the trailblazing of Pops.
Miles would not have even gotten heard had it not been for Bird. Miles may be in the top 10 jazz stylists of all time, but I would never place him in the number one position. Sometimes I think Miles' "mystique" is like "The Emperor's New Clothes." |
Anthropologically, a agree with you to a degree. He is the source of the DNA. Without Louis there is no jazz. His innovations are the foundations from which every other jazz musician sprung. However, (to me) his music isn't very interesting.
On the other hand Miles created multiple major trends in the music and (with his great BANDS) made definitive statements in each of those styles, from Birth of the Cool to Working/Relaxin etc, to the great records with Gil, to the Herbie/Ron/Tony band, to Bitches Brew, to Tutu. In this respect he is a type of 20th century giant analogous to Picasso or Stravinsky in their respective idioms of creativity.
I do agree with you about Bird, but he really only created/innovated once and basically played the same way from Jay McShann's Hootie Blues until the day he died. |
I keep rereading this and think all the points are valid and to an extent true. Miles's influence was immense. Louis's influence also huge. However, Louis's influence captured the public's attention and brought jazz into mainstream culture's acceptance. Miles, along with many others moved jazz into a intellectual realm that moved it away from popular culture. But, also like politics today, the culture drives changes too. We moved from a participatory society to an observer society. With each generation that continued to today where entertainment delivery bypasses much intellectual thought.
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Fortunatley times have changed. And with that change are influences by record companies, and their profit driven choices, to "decide" what is hip.
Record companies put artists on pedestals and the masses are convinced something is cool and innovative, partly because of media hype.
I've conceded and still maintain my opinion that Miles WAS innovative, and changed the shape and direction of jazz.
I think like most things around the late 60s, established norms were abandoned. And the "new" was embraced, simply because it didn't represent the establishment.
And record companies still wanted to profit, and promoted that change. Institutions like Grammy Awards were also included. If they all say this music is hip, it must...right?
I'll listen to Miles pre-Miles in the Sky, or Bitches Brew any day, and enjoy the complexity, innovation, and musicality.
When I want to turn on, tune in, and drop out (Timmothy Leary reference) then I switch to cerebral sounds and collective, directionless grooves of later Miles. |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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And this is where each person finds his or her own perceptions. I decided to devote the last 50 years of my life to being a professional jazz musician after hearing Miles at Fillmore.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | | And this is where each person finds his or her own perceptions. I decided to devote the last 50 years of my life to being a professional jazz musician after hearing Miles at Fillmore. |
I have the bootleg of that concert. LSD is a hellova drug. |
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SMrtn
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Miles Davis |
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| Arjuna wrote: | There is no greater artist than Miles Davis.
Miles changed music 5 times.
Miles sound is like no other with a vulnerability that is very rare.
Miles is like the Picasso of jazz. |
Like the Picasso of jazz? I'm pretty sure you'd be aware that he's been referred to as that by lots of people. I think Picasso would be a little miffed. I really like Davis, but Piccasso was more innovative in his field than Davis was in his. |
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