How to handle lead to legit switch?

brassmusician · Veteran Member Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273

For those of you that do most of your playing on a lead mouthpiece, how do you maintain readiness to perform on a larger legit piece? These days most of my playing is lead for a community big band. I decided it made sense to do my preparation - fundamentals and repetoire practice on using the lead piece. However I have run into the problem of finding it very tiring to go back to a larger (deeper) piece when needed. Just wondering what strategies other folk use? Do you do fundamentals on a larger piece to keep in shape on it?

Ed Hernandez · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:31 pm Post subject:

I'm mostly a 2 mouthpiece player. Most of my practice and playing is done on my Shew Jazz, reserving my Marcinkiewcz E-6 for more demanding split lead playing. I also have in my bag a Shew lead mp ( but don't use it much) If I'm practicing a particular song, I will use whichever mp I will be utilizing during the actual gig.
I have tried to mostly play and practice with the Marcink. And experienced the same thing to certain extent. Thus, for me sticking with legit mp for most practice and all around playing makes it easier to switch back and forth w/o compromising endurance.
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mcgovnor · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: Practice

Practice your fundamentals on the larger mouthpiece.
Your method does work for many people.[/b]

trumpet.sanity · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Oct 2016 Posts: 763

Are you keeping your rim sizes the same?

I've found if I stay to the same rim size, acclimating to different cup depths, and backbores isn't as dramatic as switching to different rim sizes.

Actually moving to a deeper cup for me, is a bit of a relief in many ways. Immediate warmer sound, wider partials, and 99% of the music I need to play is below high C.

Endurance and accuracy only gets goofy when I move rim sizes. Some guys can do it, and I'm always amazed. But I'm not one of those guys.

gstump · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934

You are what you play. If lead work and a lead mouthpiece is your briar patch than stick with the lead piece.

What worked for me was to play as dark and fundamentally correct on really bright efficient equipment. It is not easy to sound "good" doing Schlossberg or etudes on a lead piece. Work on producing a good full sound.

Folks often make the mistake of going from an A cup (Schilke parlance) tight back bore piece to an open back bore C cup like a Bach 1C. I used a B cup with a medium back bore for "legit" stuff.

Again. if you practice sounding really good on commercial equipment the change to more legit equipment is easy. I could usually fool the conductors after a few days of practice on the bigger stuff and abstaining from super high notes.

Best of luck,

Gordon Stump
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JLoyalist · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:31 pm Post subject:

I try to keep my mouthpiece rims similar. I've learned not to try and be a hero every night.

When I practice I always warm-up on the mouthpiece that I'm using for whatever work I happen to be doing the most of at that time..

As I get into working on certain areas of my fundamentals or etudes/show music I switch mouthpieces in relation to the tone, shape, and color of sound I need to make. Some days I'll spend a lot of time with just one of the mouthpieces because it fits what I hear and feel on that particular day.

If you want to be able to do something with the horn, you have to practice it. Variety is key.

I also don't mess around with Throat or Backbore sizes.

All of my mouthpieces use a throat around a #27, and the Backbore that came with the piece.

I do have one 3C with a #24 throat. It's good for ballads. Big sound... also more work to play.

brassmusician · Veteran Member Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273

thanks for your thoughts all, appreciated.

Seymor B Fudd · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:11 am Post subject:

Arjuna

Practice on a medium mouthpiece with the same rim.
I suggest Curry and GR mouthpieces for this purpose.

lipshurt · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:35 am Post subject:

over the course of many years i've figured it out for my self i think...
I have have tried the main three approached to this situation.

First i made screw rim pieces so the rim stayed exactly the same. This was in the late 70's and early 80's. I was young like 20 years old and had a real hard time going from the deep piece to the shallower piece. i always warmed up on the shallow cup and practiced material on the piece that would be used for that material. This system favored the deep piece. I could never go back to the shallow piece after practicing the deep piece hard.

Then after college i worked as a lead player playing every single night on my shallow piece for 5 years straight. Gradually i could not play my deep piece as well any more but i was hardly playing it actually.

then i decided to get a masters degree in classical playing. It basically required switching to a 1c rim for the legit side of things. I used the 1c rim size on my shallow pieces for a couple of years, but that was a near disaster. Playing lead would really beat me up, and then it was hard to play any mouthpiece.

then after finishing the degree i went down to a 3c size for both the deep and shallow. This was better. I would have to warm up and do basics on the shallow or else i would always sound harsh on it. went this way for many years.

after playing 4 to 6 sals gigs a week like this for about 15 years finally tried using a smaller rim for the shallow piece (like almost every lead player i knew at the time). Then i could warm up and do basics on the deep, and practice mainly on the deep, and then when i would switch to the shallow it would sound fine, and actually not feel and smaller. I now use a rim .010 smaller on the shallow than on the deep. That is "one size" basically. I keep th aim contour the same. not a softer bite on the shallow. Presently i have switched to a "sanders contour" for the rim. This is a godsend for me. many players are switching to this rim contour. Sounds and feels fine, good response etc, but essentially i never get beat up for playing hard, so i have way fewer recovery episodes. I still play a lot of hard gigs. I always start on the deep, and stay on the deep and never practice the shallow unless its for lead playing.

All of that took from 1978 until about 4 years ago.

identical rim sizes did not work for me. I make mouthpieces and have since i was young so any time wanted to try something it easy for me to do. Still, i would stay on something for at least a couple years at a time or more
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RandyTX · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:53 am Post subject:

I have not heard of the "sanders rim profile" before. Could you expound a bit more on it?
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trumpet.sanity · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Oct 2016 Posts: 763

I assume he's talking about Neil Sanders mouthpieces? Haven't seen those since the 80s.

trickg · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject:

This subject is something that I have to deal with on occasion too. For me, for the most part I'm lucky enough that I will usually have a transition time between the times I'm playing more lead/commercial and when I have to play something more classically oriented.

Typically, I do most of my playing and practicing on my lead setup, and only really play the other mouthpiece when I know I've got something else coming up - typically a church gig, but also a National Guard band thing.

I just try to strike a balance between the two. It would be nice if I had a single setup for everything, but just doesn't work as well for me.
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Turkle · Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject:

I do 95% of my trumpet playing on a Curry 3C.

But for loud rock gigs or pop stuff, I switch to a Curry 60M, which is shallow and tight and a bit smaller rim than the 3C (more like a 5) which is the smallest rim I can get a sound on!

I find that if I warm up on the 3C, I can't play the smaller piece. But if I warm up on the smaller piece, I can switch to the 3C or flugel no problem.

Your mileage may vary.
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Schilkes22 · Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:13 am Post subject:

I am using warburton pieces and have found that switching between cups of the same size family is no problem at all. I use a 4sv with a KT BB for My lead playing, and a 4d with a 9 BB for almost everything else.
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