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UNT: Is the magic gone?


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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agolden wrote:
Here's a couple clips of friends who went to UNT recently.

Tyler Mire & myself.

Link


Thomas Eby & Tyler Mire (Lead & Split Lead)

Link


Thomas Davis (Split Lead & a good improvisor)

Link


Jason Levi (Killer Vegas guy)

Link


James Blackwell (LA guy & has a trumpet pedagogy Youtube Channel which is full of really valuable information)
http://www.youtube.com/user/BwellsTrumpetBasics


Stuart Mack (NYC)

Link


Daniel Matthews (DFW)

Link


And a shameless plug for myself.

Link



There are plenty of great players getting pumped out of UNT.

-Andrew


Wow, that's a handful of some great trumpeters and recordings. I'm really impressed with those guys on the "Gotta Match?" recording. Those lines!!! So tight.

Jason Levi got to UNT a year or so after I left. 93' or '94 maybe? I guess he's a recent UNT grad example. But no doubt he's a monster player. I have a recording or two of the 1 o'clock where he held the lead chair, right after Adolfo left I think. And Jason sounds awesome!

Anyway, thanks for sharing those recordings, the guys sound awesome. With nine lab bands, and other ensembles there are at least 50-ish trumpeters in the jazz department at UNT at any given time, every year. There are bound to have some dynamite players that are the cream of the crop every year I'm sure. And I'm excited to see some of the new young lions that come out of the newly re shaped department.
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markp
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderators wrote:
Numerous posts removed. Please refrain from personal attacks and other comments against the UA or this thread will be closed.

Thank you,
TH Moderators


I pledge my love and unquestioning loyalty to the UA, my she ever reign. I will never speak ill of her.

But.....what exactly is the UA?
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Usage Agreement you agreed to when you signed up for this site. It is linked at the bottom of every page, or go here: http://www.trumpetherald.com/usage.php
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markp
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman rev2 wrote:
The Usage Agreement you agreed to when you signed up for this site. It is linked at the bottom of every page, or go here: http://www.trumpetherald.com/usage.php


Thanks for reminding me Don. Since we all sin and fall short from time to time, I have printed it out and tucked it into the pages of my Bible.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PH
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderators are enemies of the people.
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markp
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
Moderators are enemies of the people.


I prefer to think of them as Good Shepherds who lovingly correct us when we stray from the righteous path.

link
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bg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the original question:

Today's talented and motivated young musicians have very little interest in big band, and the schools which continue to wrap their offerings around the big band training model are no longer attracting the top students.

In speaking with these students, many of whom do not audition for the program in which I teach, state universities almost never crack their top-ten list. Also, the private teacher with whom they will study does not seem to be a priority in their college decision. They want to be in a major city, in a program where they are surrounded by other highly motivated small-group players.

This is the new paradigm.
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PH
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bg wrote:
To the original question:

Today's talented and motivated young musicians have very little interest in big band, and the schools which continue to wrap their offerings around the big band training model are no longer attracting the top students.

In speaking with these students, many of whom do not audition for the program in which I teach, state universities almost never crack their top-ten list. Also, the private teacher with whom they will study does not seem to be a priority in their college decision. They want to be in a major city, in a program where they are surrounded by other highly motivated small-group players.

This is the new paradigm.


Yup.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bg wrote:
To the original question:

Today's talented and motivated young musicians have very little interest in big band, and the schools which continue to wrap their offerings around the big band training model are no longer attracting the top students.

In speaking with these students, many of whom do not audition for the program in which I teach, state universities almost never crack their top-ten list. Also, the private teacher with whom they will study does not seem to be a priority in their college decision. They want to be in a major city, in a program where they are surrounded by other highly motivated small-group players.

This is the new paradigm.


Thank you for the well thought, pragmatic response. I agree and have seen many students who would have done well at an IU or UNT spend 4X the cost, or more, to attend MSM or NYU, or New School just to be in NYC. Which has its benefits, obviously. Networking, playing opportunities but I think they are short term successes often. And may have done better at a State school, with a professor more invested in their students, instead of just subsidizing their performing income, which is not always the case, but often so.

It's refreshing to have an honest discussion without getting emotional or having agenda driven or ego driven stances.
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we have some folks in the trenches of jazz education, how much have things actually changed?

Great players are still coming out of UNT (and IU, etc.). The military big bands at the academies and in Washington D.C. continue to be populated by players from these schools and those bands are great gigs that are hard to come by. You see players working all over the country who came out of these schools, even recently. If all of the best players were going to NYC to study, I would think I'd see some of them would chase after the security of the military and win these jobs more consistently. While Botti's gig is better than pretty much everyone's, the Navy Commodores is a pretty good spot to be.

The heyday posited by the OP had the advantage of Maynard's band being largely made up of young players from these schools. I wonder how much that matters in this perception - that a larger-than-life figure was employing all of these players scratching our trumpet geek itch.

I'm not a jazz or commercial player (but I do keep up with who comes from where and who is working), so I'd be curious to hear some input from folks who know better.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck yeah, the military bands especially the D.C. Premier bands, like the Commodores or the Note, are as prestigious a gig as can be had. And definitely lots of UNT and IU cats hold and held those chairs.

Good point!
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same goes for the MF band of that era. Different times for sure
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instrumental music does not have the emphasis today in preparatory education (public school) that it did in the 60's, 70's and 80's. So there are fewer serious trumpet players today than there were back then. That being said, the serious jazz trumpet students are still seeking admission to the historically strong jazz programs. I doubt that UNT has a shortage of excellent trumpet players or the skilled staff to develop those players. Things at UNT have always happened and continue to happen at an extremely high level.
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PH
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Brad said, a higher percentage of the top high school players will only consider going to a college in a big city with a renowned jazz scene. This means that there are fewer students with Bloomington, Boulder, Denton, Champaign, Greeley, etc. as their first choice. Nonetheless, in my (not totally unbiased) opinion the graduates of the aforementioned top flight state schools (and others like Michigan, Michigan State, Louisville...even places like Eau Claire or Western Michigan) are still completing their educations skilled, creative and ready for the career....every bit as much as the students who opt for Manhattan, New School or Purchase.

When I graduated from high school in 1973 there were only 5 or 6 schools I could consider attending to get a degree in jazz. Now there are at least a dozen in the state of Ohio alone.

When I was a kid there were only a few top flight NCAAA basketball programs. John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Dean Smith, Adolph Rupp and only a few other top coaches had kids knocking down their doors to play for them. These days the "mid-major" schools have almost as much talent as the tier one teams and often make deeper runs into the March Madness bracket. Duke is still an awesome team, but now so are Butler and Gonzaga.

North Texas (and IU and Miami) are still amazing programs turning out topflight students. But so is U Wisconsin Eau Claire and three dozen other places.
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PH
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseLindE4 wrote:
Since we have some folks in the trenches of jazz education, how much have things actually changed?

Great players are still coming out of UNT (and IU, etc.). The military big bands at the academies and in Washington D.C. continue to be populated by players from these schools and those bands are great gigs that are hard to come by. You see players working all over the country who came out of these schools, even recently. If all of the best players were going to NYC to study, I would think I'd see some of them would chase after the security of the military and win these jobs more consistently. While Botti's gig is better than pretty much everyone's, the Navy Commodores is a pretty good spot to be.

The heyday posited by the OP had the advantage of Maynard's band being largely made up of young players from these schools. I wonder how much that matters in this perception - that a larger-than-life figure was employing all of these players scratching our trumpet geek itch.

I'm not a jazz or commercial player (but I do keep up with who comes from where and who is working), so I'd be curious to hear some input from folks who know better.


Many of today's students do not find big band work to be their primary interest or career aspiration. Many of the top schools feature little (or in some cases no) required big band experience in their jazz curriculum. Therefore, it probably isn't a valid measure of successful training to use big band placement as the benchmark of success for every program. That would be like saying that Kentucky is a crappy place to develop your basketball career because the football team stinks.
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bg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
That would be like saying that Kentucky is a crappy place to develop your basketball career because the football team stinks.


I found Kentucky to be a great place to develop a jazz trumpet career, even though there was no Jazz Studies program when I attended. I did, however, play at every basketball and football game.
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PH
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bg wrote:
PH wrote:
That would be like saying that Kentucky is a crappy place to develop your basketball career because the football team stinks.


I found Kentucky to be a great place to develop a jazz trumpet career, even though there was no Jazz Studies program when I attended. I did, however, play at every basketball and football game.


However, there was Vince and a great peer group of trumpeters who formed around him.
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bg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, regarding the football team; wait until next year!
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UNT had a strong big band emphasis for sure. But I also played in the Zebras Funk ensemble, many small jazz groups, took jazz theory and comp classes, studied with Mike Steinel and Jay Saunders.

The competitiveness of the trumpet department was intense, and I think generated great energy to want to make big improvements.

With eliminating commercial and big band work, and focusing only on small group work, I think really limits options.

Unless we have a military band gig, steady touring work with a musical, circus, top name artist, or cruise ship job, we're all fighting for the same $50 gig (sometimes less) and being as well prepared I think is a good asset.
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