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21trumpet
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Location: So. California
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 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:59 pm Post subject: Raw brass from polished to brushed finish |
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I just removed the lacquer from my Wild Thing trumpet and wanted suggestions to change the polished look to a brushed finish. I have a raw finish on my flugelhorn which is now going into its first year of being raw and I am not happy with the way it is looking and on my trumpet I think I want to try and apply a brushed look but am not sure what is the best way to go about doing it. I already did a search about doing this on TH but the search tool really doesn't work too well as most of you already know. I did see a reply by Tony Scodwell about using a Scrotch Bright gray pad which I might try but just wanted to get other suggestions first. Let me know if anyone has had success getting that type of finish on raw brass.
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Yamaha YTR-9335 NYS III
Bach Commercial - LT190SL1B
Yamaha YTR-9445 NYS-YS - C Trumpet
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper - Raw
Yamaha YCR2330 Cornet
Yamaha Custom Piccolo
Monette B4S S2 Mouthpiece |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7010
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Raw brass from polished to brushed finish |
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| 21trumpet wrote: | | I just removed the lacquer from my Wild Thing trumpet and wanted suggestions to change the polished look to a brushed finish. I have a raw finish on my flugelhorn which is now going into its first year of being raw and I am not happy with the way it is looking and on my trumpet I think I want to try and apply a brushed look but am not sure what is the best way to go about doing it. I already did a search about doing this on TH but the search tool really doesn't work too well as most of you already know. I did see a reply by Tony Scodwell about using a Scrotch Bright gray pad which I might try but just wanted to get other suggestions first. Let me know if anyone has had success getting that type of finish on raw brass. |
I found that NevrDull will lightly scratch copper, but does a near mirror finish on brass. Brasso will leave a more satin finish to brass and will remove all patina from copper instantly, but brass takes significantly more work to get bright once stained.
1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper is probably the fastest, but requires high level hand technique to get right. A rotary brush will create more uniform strokes without the start/stop curlycues of handwork.
I don't recall trying Scotch-bright, although I may have.
I would recommend finding a metal supplier or fabricator who will sell you a scrap of 1/4" brass plate. Then you can experiment and practice various techniques.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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21trumpet
Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 310
Location: So. California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Raw brass from polished to brushed finish |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | 21trumpet wrote: | | I just removed the lacquer from my Wild Thing trumpet and wanted suggestions to change the polished look to a brushed finish. I have a raw finish on my flugelhorn which is now going into its first year of being raw and I am not happy with the way it is looking and on my trumpet I think I want to try and apply a brushed look but am not sure what is the best way to go about doing it. I already did a search about doing this on TH but the search tool really doesn't work too well as most of you already know. I did see a reply by Tony Scodwell about using a Scrotch Bright gray pad which I might try but just wanted to get other suggestions first. Let me know if anyone has had success getting that type of finish on raw brass. |
I found that NevrDull will lightly scratch copper, but does a near mirror finish on brass. Brasso will leave a more satin finish to brass and will remove all patina from copper instantly, but brass takes significantly more work to get bright once stained.
1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper is probably the fastest, but requires high level hand technique to get right. A rotary brush will create more uniform strokes without the start/stop curlycues of handwork.
I don't recall trying Scotch-bright, although I may have.
I would recommend finding a metal supplier or fabricator who will sell you a scrap of 1/4" brass plate. Then you can experiment and practice various techniques. |
This is what Tony had posted back in 2014:
{From what you've described it sounds like a brushed finish with Scotch Brite pads and clear lacquer after would be what you want. The dark gray pads (equal to OO steel wool) can be found at any Lowe's and without any special expertise to do it, it's a lovely finish. Very "satin" looking without any "sandpaper" look.}
Not sure I would want to use sandpaper.
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Yamaha YTR-9335 NYS III
Bach Commercial - LT190SL1B
Yamaha YTR-9445 NYS-YS - C Trumpet
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper - Raw
Yamaha YCR2330 Cornet
Yamaha Custom Piccolo
Monette B4S S2 Mouthpiece |
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Bill Blackwell
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Joined: 28 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I've found lacquer usually provides for a fairly even and consistent look on brass and copper. ...
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Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine
Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper
The future ain't what it used to be. ...
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trumpet.sanity
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Joined: 24 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to get into the debate about playability about raw brass vs silver plate or lacquer.
However just longevity of raw brass: every time you "polish" it, or take scotch bright or steel wool to brass, aren't you just slowly eating away at materials?
I mean, it's little bits of course, but over time aren't you just taking away more and more metal?
And don't you constantly have to be cleaning it, so nature doesn't eat away at it through oxidation and corrosion?
Seems like a hassle...no? |
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21trumpet
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Location: So. California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpet.sanity wrote: | I'm not going to get into the debate about playability about raw brass vs silver plate or lacquer.
However just longevity of raw brass: every time you "polish" it, or take scotch bright or steel wool to brass, aren't you just slowly eating away at materials?
I mean, it's little bits of course, but over time aren't you just taking away more and more metal?
And don't you constantly have to be cleaning it, so nature doesn't eat away at it through oxidation and corrosion?
Seems like a hassle...no? |
This is just a one time application to get rid of the polished look then I will let the brass patina naturally over time.
BTW the horn plays about the same with or without the lacquer, I just like raw brass better.
I has hoping that someone who has horn building/repair to chime in on this. Someone that has hands on experience.
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Yamaha YTR-9335 NYS III
Bach Commercial - LT190SL1B
Yamaha YTR-9445 NYS-YS - C Trumpet
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper - Raw
Yamaha YCR2330 Cornet
Yamaha Custom Piccolo
Monette B4S S2 Mouthpiece |
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Bob Stevenson
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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Location: Essex, England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:48 am Post subject: |
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This is hand done 'brushed' on bell using Scotch pad in the kitchen sink......
Some areas were left mirror finish......it's time consuming and tricky to complete well but doable......
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21trumpet
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Location: So. California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Bob, did you do this in the sink because you used water while doing the brushing with the scotch bright pad?
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Yamaha YTR-9335 NYS III
Bach Commercial - LT190SL1B
Yamaha YTR-9445 NYS-YS - C Trumpet
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper - Raw
Yamaha YCR2330 Cornet
Yamaha Custom Piccolo
Monette B4S S2 Mouthpiece |
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Bob Stevenson
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Location: Essex, England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Yes,...the water/soap mix makes the work much easier and controllable to get the finish you want. The pads were hammered on a hard surface to get them into a more gentle and controllable condition.
The best method was found to use tiny circular movements of the pad on the brass as this gives the best and most even looking finish. |
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21trumpet
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Location: So. California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Bob Stevenson wrote: | Yes,...the water/soap mix makes the work much easier and controllable to get the finish you want. The pads were hammered on a hard surface to get them into a more gentle and controllable condition.
The best method was found to use tiny circular movements of the pad on the brass as this gives the best and most even looking finish. |
Thanks Bob I will give that a try.
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Yamaha YTR-9335 NYS III
Bach Commercial - LT190SL1B
Yamaha YTR-9445 NYS-YS - C Trumpet
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper - Raw
Yamaha YCR2330 Cornet
Yamaha Custom Piccolo
Monette B4S S2 Mouthpiece |
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21trumpet
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Posts: 310
Location: So. California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Finally finished my horns and they both turned out great......
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Yamaha YTR-9335 NYS III
Bach Commercial - LT190SL1B
Yamaha YTR-9445 NYS-YS - C Trumpet
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper - Raw
Yamaha YCR2330 Cornet
Yamaha Custom Piccolo
Monette B4S S2 Mouthpiece |
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Hugh Anderson
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I did a bugle. 2000 or 3000 sandpaper from a car parts place is very fine. Scotch Brite comes in several colors, gray is recommended. I couldn't control a brass brush wheel on a Dremel, maybe you could. I didn't go on to a trumpet. |
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Steve Hollahan
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Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 519
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: Brushed finish |
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Soft brass bristle brushes are available from jewelers supply. I use one from Rio Grande jewelers to brush the brass. Nice look Then seal w/ a good metal wax, also from Rio Grande. Check Rio Grande jewelry supply on line.
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Steve Hollahan
Bach 37, 229 C
Yamaha 9620 D-Eb, 741 C, Flugel
Kanstul 900 piccolo trumpet
Sculptured Recrafting Custom Instrument Repair
and Restoration
www.sculpturedrecrafting.com |
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rbtrpt
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Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I love the look of the brushed brass! I have two raw brass Bach Strads that I'd love to have that finish on.
My question...after the "brushing" does the brass turn that ugly darker color like regular raw brass does over time? Or does it maintain that brushed shiny look?
Thanks guys!
Rick Bogard
Prof of Trpt
Univ of Texas at Arlington |
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rbtrpt
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Crickets? |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| rbtrpt wrote: | I love the look of the brushed brass! I have two raw brass Bach Strads that I'd love to have that finish on.
My question...after the "brushing" does the brass turn that ugly darker color like regular raw brass does over time? Or does it maintain that brushed shiny look?
Thanks guys!
Rick Bogard
Prof of Trpt
Univ of Texas at Arlington |
Any raw brass horn will start to develop a patina unless you occasionally clean it with something like Brasso (which will result in some metal loss), coat it with some sort of wax, or get a lacquer finish on it.
Brushing doesn't do anything to change that unless you're brushing on a coating of something.
Brass + Air = patina.
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Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
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chesneyjune
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Joined: 12 Mar 2017
Posts: 5
Location: South korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:31 pm Post subject: Hi , I have question |
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Can you show me ' Scotch Pad ' pics?
Thank you
Chesney |
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Steve Hollahan
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: Wax finish |
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After stripping, use a good metal wa. I've heard car polish works. You want to slow down oxidation. Sealing a finish w/ thin wax will do that.
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Steve Hollahan
Bach 37, 229 C
Yamaha 9620 D-Eb, 741 C, Flugel
Kanstul 900 piccolo trumpet
Sculptured Recrafting Custom Instrument Repair
and Restoration
www.sculpturedrecrafting.com |
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Benge.nut
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: |
Brass + Air = patina. |
Patina=oxidation, right?
Oxidation=corrosion and deterioration of materials, right?
I get it, raw brass looks pretty, and the patina looks cool and different. But isn't the brass just getting eaten away, and the life of the horn is being shortened? |
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kevin_soda
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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My wedding ring is brushed gold. The jeweler we bought it from said that brushed metals become polished over time from contact with our skin. It definitely was true with my ring. Seems to be the case with raw brass as well. Contact points stay relatively shiny while the rest dulls.
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