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Zottola Mouthpieces


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_gnocchi
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys: Just wondering if anyone has tried these and also likes them? I bought one (64B) years ago and never really used it until I tried it with my Calicchio s7....it really works for the sound and feel I favor. It is really true that there are certain horn-MP combinations that just sing.....

Also, the "step bore" idea of the Zottola MPs does seem to help the notes slot better...has this been your experience?
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rich
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Zottola when I was in Jr./Sr. high back in the 50/60s ... I think it was the 64 not sure if a B or C though... anyway, it's been so long ago, but I recall liking that mouthpiece. How would you describe the sound you get as compared to other mpcs. ?? darker, warmer, brighter, an edge to the attack, less edge, etc... It would be fun to try a Zattola again just for kicks.

thanks ... rich
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before Zottola died, I went up to his place in Port Chester, NY. He was a really nice guy with some interesting concepts. He even showed me around his private factory at his house and the different equipment used in making mouthpieces. I found his idea of the 'stepped' backbore fascinating. I think I bought a 64c and d...this was right before going on a cruise ship gig and I remember feeling that the bite was too sharp for me on those hard blowing gigs... so I didn't wind up using them...now that my embouchure is more developed and I know what mouthpiece fits me best, I would probably try the smaller size...62. I know that the great free jazz trumpet player Bill Dixon has used them for a long time...I had a lesson with him a couple of years ago and he was playing them....the b and c cups I think. All the best, Lex.
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_gnocchi
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich: Yes, I think it is a darker, more focused sound. Unfortunately, after playing on it for a good while I remembered why it was in a closet...it is a bit too wide for me. I am going to order a 62B or maybe an A cup and see how that goes. The best part is that playing this piece is very comfortable not only because of rim size/shape, it almost feels like the plating or maybe even the material is softer/warmer...can't explain it...it is just a feeling.
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trumpetchops
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played on a Zetola for a long time for lead work.

The problem for me was the tuning wasn't consistent from high to low.

I can't remember if I have this backwards or not, it's been a while.

Play around high C = main slide way out.

Play around C on the staff = main slide way in.


[ This Message was edited by: trumpetchops on 2003-11-17 15:06 ]
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rich
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bringing this thread back up in hopes that a Zottola user might have the answer.

I have found a Zottola (very old) 64B in a local friend's junk box. It says Port Chester N. Y. and directly underneath that it says "patented".

I have also had a gentleman email me that has a 64B but it only says Port Chester N. Y. on it and does not have the "patented" below. He says it was raw brass with the orignal owners name engraved on it when he got it and he has since had it replated.

Do you think this could possibly still be an original. Or would this be one that was made after Mr. Zottola no longer had the company.... since the "patented" is gone??

Also, how much, if any, does replating change the way a mouthpiece plays??

thanks
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DCB1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,
If done properly then it should make little difference. Contact Lee Adams, http://www.trumpetchops.com/ he will do it right!
I would like to try one.
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[ This Message was edited by: DCB1 on 2004-07-30 18:36 ]
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to play a Zottola 64C (trpt.) on my piccolo. It had just the right rim and cup for high stuff like Brandenburg. I still have it and sometimes recommend it to my students to try, especially on piccolo.

Here's a little information about the stepped backbore. Back in the early 1970s I took that Zottola mouthpiece to an expert brass repairman in hopes that he could round out the bite of the rim just a tiny bit on his lathe. He did so and then looked into the backbore. He almost laughed!

I asked him why the steps were so funny. He then told me that he had worked for a few years at the Bach factory and was one of their mouthpiece makers. He explained that smaller, inexpensive lathes (like people might have in their basements as a hobbiest) were not able to create enough torque to drill out a backbore with a curved backbore tool. Besides, "real" backbore tools were difficult to find in those days (and rather expensive if you did find one).

He suggested that Zottola was drilling backbores with a stepped drill bit, like the ones you can buy at any good hardware store or machine shop. On a small lathe, the machinist would need to drill out the backbore with the stepped bit, and then follow up with a real backbore bit to remove the steps. Zottola was simply not finishing the job.

He said that the steps would cause no real playing or sound problems because they faced away from the player's air stream. This seemed true to me . It played fine.

After knowing this, I got a huge kick out of Zottola's catalog from back then. The story about Frank's evening walk in a quiet New England woods where he found a little smoothly flowing stream.......as he walked along, the stream began to flow faster and eventually flowed over periodic rock barriers. His trained musician's ear immediately noticed that the sound of the water became more compact and brilliant the further he walked. He had the instant revelation that this law of nature could be applied to mouthpieces. BULL! He just didn't have a real backbore tool at the time!

Anyway, absolutely nothing wrong with the mouthpieces. I know that the company was recently sold, but I am not sure who now owns it. Drilling the throat and backbore out will help get a bigger sound, just don't overdo it. The Zottola throat size is small.....I think it is a #28 or #29 drill bit size. The backbore is extremely tight (essentially a Morse taper with the steps still there). I know that a strong player with decent "lead" chops might like it with a #24 or #25 throat with a #118 backbore. Just a guess, though, because I have not heard you play.

Dave Hickman
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rich
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting story.... thanks... seems I read that on another post I found under "search" for Zottola mpcs.

I also have an old 64B cornet mpc that I hadn't tried until a few minutes ago... the hole is tiny compared to the 64B trumpet mpc I have here... very different sizes for sure... don't know what they are. But, the cornet mpc makes my little student line yamaha cornet very bright and the range is up there. I usually use Yamaha short shank mpcs on the cornet which make it VERY mellow and dark... so just the mouthpiece makes that cornet into different sounds a world apart.

I don't know if the trumpet 64B has been drilled out... I'm guessing that it has not knowing where it came from ... but I'm not sure of that.

For you Zottola experts, would the whole size on the cornet 64B be way smaller than the trumpet 64B??

thanks..
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SPITTY
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 64 B trumpet piece and a 64 FL - both really nice MPs - I think the trumpet piece was drilled out a bit. I bought them from Alex in NYC on 46th Street - apparently they were sold to him by the widow of a former member of count basie's trumpet section-he couldn't remember his name. They play great, but I didn't stay on them cause they feel too small for me and the rim feels too wide (I play a 3B). I used them on my first real gig as I felt confident on them at the time-the sound is nice and full and really projects. Real easy to play up high on these and a little bit harder to play low - after being way up that is.


All the best,
Spitty
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know how the bite is on the 62C? I'm interested in it because, according to the Ultimate Mouthpiece Comparision Chart http://www.ibowtie.com/tmptmpccharts.html , it has the same diameter as my Warburton 8m. Is the bite very sharp, sharp, medium-sharp, medium, medium-soft, soft, or very soft? Thanks and all the best, Lex.
p.s. - Or you could look at it on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the softest...
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MUSICandCHARACTER
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't argue with that Ultimate chart!

On my chart, each manufacturer has a link (except Denis Wick, which I have never found on the internet). Anyway, if you go to http://users.rcn.com/rakright/ you will get a bit of information. Dick Akright is the distributor of the Gen 2 Rudy Muck mouthpieces. I believe he is trying to bring back the Zottola sometime in the future.

Jim
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glennzottola
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: zottola mouthpiece Reply with quote

Glenn Zottola here. I usually don't do forums but have made an exception based on Mr. Hickmans distasteful comments. My Brother Bob tells me Mr. Hickman is a respected player and educator although i am not familiar with him. I was with my dad in New England when i was a child when he had his realizations on the step bore which he holds a patent. I have played a stepped back bore my whole life and recorded over 30 albums and travelled the world performing with the great legends of jazz along with being a bandleader on network TV. The step back bore mouthpiece has been an integral part of giving me my signature sound. My dad who is gone now spent his whole life trying to help brass players and was a master machinist who knew the old man Vincent Bach. He also made a symphony back bore as he knew the stepped back bore was not for everyone. I don't appreciate Mr. Hickman bashing my dad with no facts and that is not what i would expect from a reputable player and educator.

Glenn Zottola
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Glenn. Nice to "meet" you.

You might be overreacting a little. There are lots of things that work that have explanations that aren't really right. That doesn't mean the people trying to make the explanations aren't sincere, wonderful people.

Feel free to share more about your father, I'm sure the stories will be fascinating.

Tom
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn,

Keep in mind that Mr. Hickman's post is over seven years old -- that dog had been sleeping a good long time and would have slept on, unremembered, if you hadn't roused it. Consider too, that your ire would be more accurately aimed at the unnamed repairman who fed Mr. Hickman misinformation based on an assumption.

I have a couple of Zottola cornet mouthpieces. The 64A is one of my favorites, and seems to be a good match with my .485"-bore Conns. I think it's too bad that Dick Akright decided not to put them back into production after he bought the company.
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ChopsGone
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's hope Dick eventually goes into production with the Zottola line. I only have a couple, a 64AW (which isn't listed) and a 64B. The 64B is always in easy reach on my desk - it's not my first choice for all horns, but it's the one mouthpiece I have, out of several dozen, that seems to be just about the universal trumpet mouthpiece. Whenever I'm sorting out a new or new-to-me horn, I'll probably put in some time with the 64B. I haven't found a trumpet yet that doesn't respond well to it.
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maynard-46
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Zotolla Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Quote:
Glenn Zottola here. I usually don't do forums but have made an exception based on Mr. Hickmans distasteful comments. My Brother Bob tells me Mr. Hickman is a respected player and educator although i am not familiar with him. I was with my dad in New England when i was a child when he had his realizations on the step bore which he holds a patent. I have played a stepped back bore my whole life and recorded over 30 albums and travelled the world performing with the great legends of jazz along with being a bandleader on network TV. The step back bore mouthpiece has been an integral part of giving me my signature sound. My dad who is gone now spent his whole life trying to help brass players and was a master machinist who knew the old man Vincent Bach. He also made a symphony back bore as he knew the stepped back bore was not for everyone. I don't appreciate Mr. Hickman bashing my dad with no facts and that is not what i would expect from a reputable player and educator.


Hi Glenn!

Just wanted to chime in regarding your Dad! He was one of the nicest people I've ever met (anf your Mom!). Late '70's-early '80's I can't tell you the number of times I visited him and his shop to have him make me a custom piece. I'd call him either in the morning or the day before and he'd say "sure...come on down Butch"!!! I'd make the hour trip and he'd cut whatever I wanted...let it cool down...try it...shave a little more off the bite, etc. He'd always invite me to have lunch with him and your Mom. I was there a couple of times when he received his shipment of vitamins then he would tell me the benefit of all of them!!! When we were finished he'd call the guy that did his plating and tell him I was coming. I'd drive over there...get the piece plated...then return home. Some of the nicest days I've ever spent!!

BTW...do you know/have you worked with a trombone player named Walter (Wally) Ballou??? He's a longtime friend of mine and has mentioned your name to me MANY times!

Anyway...thank you for having such nice parents!!!

Butch
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glennzottola
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i appreciate that very much and thank you. My dad was an incredible engineer and very fine trumpet player and musician and he held many patents. Also he was a beautiful person and his mouthpieces were a labor of love for him. As we all know equipment is a very personal thing and that is not my issue here. You accurately target the unamed repairman which is absurd that anyone would use his data. Having said that i wanted to say one more more thing and then possibly exit. I have been associated with some of the great innovators in jazz starting with Louis Armstrong my first mentor through standing next to Benny Goodman every night and playing with Chick Corea. They all have one thing in common in that they could think out of the box and were not closed off to new ideas. Many of these innovators left traditional schools and methods because they saw it was not going to lead to realizing their musical dreams. Miles Davis as one example left Julliard as he found he could learn more about making music in Jazz Clubs on 52nd street than in school and we all are the better for it. I have an issue with a closed off pedantic aproach to art and my justification for that issue is where is the next renassaince as a result of that closed off approach ? Again thank you for your comments. Glenn
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glennzottola
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butch thanks so much and you made my day ! Yeah many time i saw my dad bring out the homemade wine when a musician couldn't decide on a model
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glennzottola
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butch - yes the name Wally Ballou does sound familiar ? Glenn
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