Skeletonized mouthpieces?

Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596

What's the story with them?

To clarify what I'm referring to - the one someone gave me is a Bach 3C where much of the outer material of the bowl has been trimmed away - but not a "visualizer" mouthpiece. This is a playable mouthpiece.
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deleted_user_680e93b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

They are just another tool to help with the embouchure. They can be used as a visualizer but can also be "played" or "exercised" to mixed results. Chad Shoopman does some stuff on Youtube with the Warburton variety and there are other guys demonstrating the use of skeletonized mouthpieces. I recently had one made out of a extra curry 00m piece. I use it to help with focusing the air stream. I'm still experimenting though.

regards,

tom

Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596

deleted_user_680e93b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Yes, that's exactly what i have, here is a video by brad Goode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXfzvLONoRo

regards,

tom

Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596

deleted_user_680e93b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Oh, Okay. that sounds interesting too. With most of the mass gone i would think it would be very bright.

regards,

tom

ML52K · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:01 am Post subject:

Go to schilkemusic.com and navigate over to their mouthpiece section. Page down to the lower part of the mouthpiece section, they have descriptions of their "Z" series.

Basic information is there. They describe that series as "skeletonized."

An observation I'm going to make is that many "upper register" mouthpieces from various manufacturers have reduced mass.

bach_again · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:03 am Post subject:

I know what you mean. I think this was a trend in the 70s/80s. Jet Tone's of a certain design were very "skeletonized". I think they have a little more harmonic content, potentially don't project quite as well, and give a little more player feedback.

Mike
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deleted_user_680e93b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

here's the page described above from schilke:

http://www.schilkemusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2016-MPC-Catalog-LR.pdf

regards,

tom

Dayton · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:08 am Post subject:

Mouthpieces with less mass are supposed to offer a brighter tone, quicker response and more flexible slotting when compared to an otherwise identical -- same rim, cup, backbore, throat -- mouthpiece.

I find that to be true when switching from a Monette STC weight (most mass) mouthpiece to an XLT weight (least mass) mouthpiece, though the differences are slight.

PH · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:23 am Post subject:

I experimented with skeletonization back in the '70s, when this was indeed a fad. All the "excess mass" of the mouthpiece blank is cut away so that what remains is the minimal amount of weight/mass to provide structural integrity for the mouthpiece. I was playing Schilke mouthpieces back then (in college) and this was an option you could order on any of their mouthpieces for a small additional fee.

The effect (to me at least) was that attacks spoke MUCH faster. The sound seemed to be brighter (at least to the player's ears). Yes, there was more flexibility to the slots, but the notes were also less stable and the slots seemed "squirrelly." All of this to say that is sort of the opposite of heavier weighted mouthpieces...which seems logical.
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Richard III · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:31 am Post subject:

The loss of mass can be compensated by the shape of the cup. The CG Personal is a skeletonized mouthpiece but the V cup makes it pretty stable and less bright. I've asked about this before because that style is so common in french horn mouthpieces and no one is going to make a horn mouthpiece that makes the instrument any more unstable. There are a few trumpet mouthpieces like that but the trend has been to more mass. I would love to find a new construction mouthpiece like that, but usually they are only the really old period pieces.
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hackney_wick · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:46 am Post subject:

Delete

VetPsychWars · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:53 am Post subject:

The Buescher Duo-Cup was constructed that way too...

All of the mass is in the rim, and the cup volume is increased to compensate.

Tom
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Brad361 · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject:

I recently bought a Schilke 14a4z, which is basically a "skeletonized" 14a4a. In my opinion it IS a bit brighter and maybe a little looser, regarding slots.
The word "zippier" sort of describes it.

Brad
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Richard III · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject:

Craig Swartz · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject:

I remember Schilke offering such things back around the time Scott Laskey started making the custom mouthpieces, maybe late 70s or so. (Bone mouthpieces, too.) Interesting that things have now seemed to go the other way concerning mass. Back then (and now, I suppose), the Jet Tones didn't have much residual weight on them. The old 3A I used in the rock bands wasn't anywhere near as heavy as the Schilke 19 I used for orchestra. As for a skeletonized 19, I never saw the need. I don't think Reeves or any of the other commercially successful makers delved into them much, either. WTH? give them what they want...

VetPsychWars · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject:

Amateur's Amateur · Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:52 pm Post subject:

"What's the story with them?"

Good information from Mark Curry's website:

"Lighter blanks allow more overtones to develop and color changes are easier to produce at low volume levels. However, the sound may “break up” at high volume levels. Trumpet cups shallower than Curry Z cups tend to sound "tinny" on this blank, while M cups or deeper develop a hot "burn" to the tone, especially on light-weight trumpets."

This and more info was found here:

http://www.currympc.com/index.php?id=50