Blueprinting

chuck in ny · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:25 pm Post subject:

things depend on what needs to be done on what horn. for a kanstul it could go to flip oakes. for something like a bach leadpipe change charlie melk is your guy. jim becker has been at it vastly improving bach trumpets for a good bit and it's put up or shut up everybody reports major improvement.
there is a short list of good technicians who could actually be sent a horn to work on with no talk or directions whatsoever. they know. there's nothing to go wrong with the transaction. if you send your horn to anyone but the very best good luck with that. it's also vastly less expensive to use the best so go figure.

TrumpetMD · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:44 pm Post subject:

I appreciate AJCarter's and Faldo's observations about blueprinting. And I appreciate Jim Becker's experience and comments.

I think we're making an assumption that certain modifications will always result in an improvement. Or as Jim said, "[they blueprinted] trumpets that were very good to begin with and elevated them to the next level."

I'm not disagreeing with this. In reality, I have no basis for agreeing or disagreeing with these statements. But I wonder if there is any objective evidence to support this? (Not that there needs to be. I'm just wondering.) To clarify, any personal before-and-after appraisal is likely to be somewhat subjective. It would be interesting if there was a blind test of a number of horns (by someone with no "skin in the game"), some blueprinted, others not, to see if the blueprinted horns could be identified.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.

LittleRusty · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject:

TKSop · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:19 pm Post subject:

James Becker · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:27 am Post subject:

To be clear, the aim of blueprinting is to take an off the shelf instrument, find it's flaws and correct them in order to realize it's fullest potential. The cumulative effect of eliminating multiple perturbations in the bore results in a more efficient system.

Over the years we've encountered all styles and types of players. I can provide customers with the reference measurements recorded on their blueprinting shop card, but turns out most don't care to know the details, they just want to play the best instrument they can. The numbers on the cards don't lie and they don't need to, the proof is in the positive feedback we receive from our customers.

We've arrived at this process from many years of experience (over 100 years combined between the three of us) by working with some of the finest brass players in New England and beyond. Ours skills as players and technicians have been elevated by the demands of our clientele.

No matter your skill level, it's our mission to provide you an instrument that's more of a joy to play.

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

a.kemp · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:53 am Post subject:

First off, I want to also chime in that Jim's blueprinting is excellent!
He blueprinted 2 horns for me and the results were superb. Price varies depending what needs to be addressed. Nothing is done to the horn without Jim being up front and telling the owner of the horns needs and ballpark price.

Second, I believe that although anybody can have blueprinting done, it's aimed at professional trumpet players and aspiring professionals. People who play the horn everyday and know the intricacies of their horn.

I don't expect someone who doesn't play everyday or hasn't played for long to necessarily benefit from some of these fixes.

And, having a blind test doesn't address what blueprinting is all about. Every trumpet is different. This service is about 'your trumpet'.

I could play 8-10 Bach or yamahas. Some will be what I consider great. But, familiarity with "my horn" more often than not will trump another great horn. Because there are things we get used to. And, if you play this horn all day/everyday, it becomes a whole new comfort level.

Now, if you can refine an already good horn, the benefits to a professional are immeasurable. It's not only about sounding better. It also becomes about being able to do your job easier.

I'd gladly pay $330-450 for upgrading a horn that I use everyday to make a living. A dollar a day for a year? To make my job a few % easier? Sign me up.

Rod Haney · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937

Ok - so who is making a trumpet dynamometer?

OR - could it be we really DONT want to know - muahahaha

TrumpetMD · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:28 am Post subject:

James Becker · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:43 am Post subject:

To paraphrase Tom Rolfs when explaining my intended course of action to repair his Bach C trumpet.

Stop, I don't want to know, I just want to play it.

Like I've said before, our customers are more interested in results rather than process.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

Rod Haney · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937

Chasing the perfect horn is much easier than developing the player behind it, and a whole lot less work. Of course if doing both - game on, but I have found in my talent limited pursuit that what's behind the horn that make 98% of the sound coming out. Some horns I played poorly a year ago are sounding good now because my breath support is stronger a year after starting back after a very long health related absence. I played large bore horns in the 60's that do not suit me at all now. Then I played what the big band guys played regardless of my play characteristics, cause that's what the guys that turned my crank played. Now the Internet and people other than famed instructors have access to such a wide range of useful and at times worthless information. I think where I'm trying to go with this rAmble is that I believe any horn can be made to match you given its design, it's still up to you to find the right horn to have improved. I believe that a guy could make a stock Bach 37 play better for me than any other Bach 37 in the world- but I could never believe a Bach is the best instrument for me based on playing many brands. So yes I believe in specialists improving things, but I don't believe anyone can turn a leopard into a lion!
Rod

chuck in ny · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:25 am Post subject:

this discussion has strayed into improbable territory. it's hard to squeeze dollars out of the trumpet crowd. this is a <very> tough crowd. if there was anything at all fishy about osmun's work people would be screaming about the too small amount of improvement and so forth and they wouldn't have a business anymore.
talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. there is too much music in this and not enough business sense. even though there is a quid pro quo of paying to have the work done, osmun is doing you a favor. for the classic work on bachs there is nobody else working to that level.
the same applies to flip oakes for those who go for his products, when he goes or hangs it up forget about getting something further. there is only one technician with him, extremely tepid sales, and only so many units are going to be made while he's on the earth. who is doing whom a favor here.

dr_trumpet · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:37 am Post subject:

LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:50 am Post subject:

I hope no one thought my additions to the verification experiment was meant to imply anything negative about the blueprinting process.

I am an engineer by trade and predisposition. I have an innate desire to validate and the suggestion in the post by TrumpetMD caught my fancy.

I have used Osmun's services in the past and am happy with the result. I have only one complaint. That complaint is that it costs too much to get my horn across the country to have them work on it.

TrumpetMD · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:06 am Post subject:

TKSop · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:15 am Post subject:

TrumpetMD · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:43 am Post subject:

James Becker · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:03 am Post subject:

If any of you would like to book a same day appointment for blueprinting and show up in person I'll gladly let you play test your trumpet every step of the way.

I remember Andy Lott's visit where we did one adjustment at a time then let him play test his Bach C trumpet after each step. Phillip Chase Hawkins was present in the room as Andy play tested. The two of them looked at each other with amazement after each progressive adjustment. Having heard it with my own ears and receiving their positive feedback confirmed the validity of each adjustment.

It's time to finish my lunch and get back to restoring the valves of a 50 year old Bach Stradivarius. I've gotta go get some work done!
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

Heim · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Dec 2013 Posts: 181

Jim when did you start doing this "blueprinting"?

Thanks

Louise Finch · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject:

Andy Cooper · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject:

Could you quantify the process?

Maybe. A few years ago Smith-Watkins published some work showing how to use a computer to identify variations in the bore of trumpets. (I think there was an example of IDing a solder blob in a Yamaha trumpet.)

You could run the experiment before, then after the process and compare the output. Then compare it with the shop list of modifications made. Here's another Masters thesis for someone.

Try searching for

fourier transform and smith-watkins and trumpet acoustics

It may have been an article in ITG - 20 years or so ago.