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Schilke B1 vs Connstellation 38B


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botahoratiu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Schilke B1 vs Connstellation 38B Reply with quote

Hi
I recently acquired a Conn Connstellation 38B from 1968-1969 in very nice condition, which made me change my mind ... before that, I thought that my Schilke B1 is the best horn ever built with the best sound in the world (don't want to start any fight here, I know it's not that way... buy, you know it ... every one of us has it's own favorite). Anyway, the Conn blew my mind in terms of sound and playability. It sounds just incredibly! And it projects much better and easier, it really is amazing!
The question is: which one to keep? I know it's a personal choice, but what would you do? I can't afford keeping both, that's for sure. Could it be some honeymoon period with the Conn? The only drawback of the Conn is the trigger, which I am not used to (yet).
p.s. isn't the Conn smaller in bore? it surely feels bigger to me.
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botahoratiu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to mention that both have spot-on intonation (Conn has it close to perfect ... as good as a trumpet design can allow it)
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botahoratiu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and one more thing ... the Connstellation came with a set of spare valves which seem to be some new old stock, maybe never used, so they could last a life time. The installed ones are also in close to new condition. Not to mention a superb NEW gold plated Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Conn 38B has a smaller bore, something like 0.438 as opposed to the standard ML bore 0.460 of the Schilke.

Just goes to show that one shouldn't shop by spec and bore size is only one component of how the horn plays.

I've never seen a horn sold with extra valves. Curious...

Those older "Crysteel" Conn valves are very solid and durable in my experience. The ones I've seen look almost brand new to this day. I've got several abused Conn Directors in school inventories, and I've seen some 38B's and 28A's and have a 28B in the shop getting cleaned up. All have very nice, almost new looking valves.

Enjoy!
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botahoratiu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
The Conn 38B has a smaller bore, something like 0.438 as opposed to the standard ML bore 0.460 of the Schilke.

Just goes to show that one shouldn't shop by spec and bore size is only one component of how the horn plays.

I've never seen a horn sold with extra valves. Curious...

Those older "Crysteel" Conn valves are very solid and durable in my experience. The ones I've seen look almost brand new to this day. I've got several abused Conn Directors in school inventories, and I've seen some 38B's and 28A's and have a 28B in the shop getting cleaned up. All have very nice, almost new looking valves.

Enjoy!

That's the case also with my valves: they are still like new. However, it came with a set of spare valves. Great, isn't it?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

botahoratiu wrote:
Crazy Finn wrote:
The Conn 38B has a smaller bore, something like 0.438 as opposed to the standard ML bore 0.460 of the Schilke.

Just goes to show that one shouldn't shop by spec and bore size is only one component of how the horn plays.

I've never seen a horn sold with extra valves. Curious...

Those older "Crysteel" Conn valves are very solid and durable in my experience. The ones I've seen look almost brand new to this day. I've got several abused Conn Directors in school inventories, and I've seen some 38B's and 28A's and have a 28B in the shop getting cleaned up. All have very nice, almost new looking valves.

Enjoy!

That's the case also with my valves: they are still like new. However, it came with a set of spare valves. Great, isn't it?

Extra or spare is rarely bad...
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the bore size, Finn, isn't there something about the design of the 38B regarding a tapering of the tubing as it goes through the horn that makes the actual, "functional" bore size, more than just a standard "small"?

@botahoratiu - I have a great Schilke (B7) and a Connstellation and if I had to chose one over the other, I'd choose the Conn because of the tone, although there certainly is nothing wrong with the Schilke.
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gigolaw
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are all different. Over the years I have tested a few Constellations and they were all complicated horns for me, specially in the transition to the high register. If the Constellation works better in terms of Sound, blow, etc, keep it and send me the Shilke B1...
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botahoratiu
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gigolaw wrote:
We are all different. Over the years I have tested a few Constellations and they were all complicated horns for me, specially in the transition to the high register. If the Constellation works better in terms of Sound, blow, etc, keep it and send me the Shilke B1...

What will you do with 2 B1s?
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sound" is a very interesting topic. Two horns may sound different but which of the sounds is the better sound is a matter of opinion for which there can be, and typically is, considerable disagreement.

"Projection" is another interesting topic. How can you tell how well a horn "projects" by listening from the player's end of the horn? It would seem that at any given volume level the more feedback you get the less the horn "projects."

"Playability" is an interesting topic, too. "Playability" has a lot to do with personal preferences.

If there was one horn that really did have the best sound, projection and playability, wouldn't we all be playing it? The point is that these qualities are all typically evaluated by players on a highly personal and highly subjective basis.

If you feel that the Conn is superior to the Schilke as to sound, projection and playability and you can have only one horn, why would you even consider keeping the Schilke? This seems like a no-brainer to me.
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botahoratiu
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hermokiwi, you are right in all aspects.
As of sound, I think the Conn is more flexible.
By projection, I meant that I could here myself better over the band, but that is what you said... you are right, it's the feedback from the player.
By playability I meant it plays easier in all aspects.
Anyway, tge Schilke is a great horn which I am used to over years.
I am a bit confused
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

botahoratiu wrote:
What will you do with 2 B1s?

Bomb Afghanistan?
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Greenleaf
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: Schilke B1 vs Connstellation 38B Reply with quote

botahoratiu wrote:
Hi
I recently acquired a Conn Connstellation 38B from 1968-1969 in very nice condition, which made me change my mind ... before that, I thought that my Schilke B1 . . .
The question is: which one to keep? . . .


I say, "Keep them both." Two amazing horns!
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delano
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With two horns like that you don't have to worry about a horn safari and maybe they are enough for not being bothered by the N+1 virus.
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richardwy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.

Glad you like the 38B so well.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richardwy wrote:
How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.

Glad you like the 38B so well.

Yes, a great piece of advice I got when first trying mouthpieces or horns is, if when possible, keep the one you think you might be replacing so that you can have some time with both items to A/B them.
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botahoratiu
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richardwy wrote:
How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.

Glad you like the 38B so well.

Not a bad idea.
How am I supposed to choose the best sound? Recording? Listener?
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
botahoratiu wrote:
What will you do with 2 B1s?

Bomb Afghanistan?


I'll take US HEGEMONY for $600, Alex.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richardwy wrote:
How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.

Glad you like the 38B so well.


Agree! Bought a V B cornet after testing all brands, canīt recall were as of now, Washington it was. Anyhow this VB was superior. Outstanding sound, ease of valves, easy high register as well as full low. Brought it back to Sweden, played in the band, slowly realizing I could not fill it..........
Finally completely exhausted borrowed an old Eterna and was I young and powerful again. Honeymoons are treacherous indeed
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Mr.M
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

botahoratiu wrote:
richardwy wrote:
How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.

Glad you like the 38B so well.

Not a bad idea.
How am I supposed to choose the best sound? Recording? Listener?


Ask someone you trust which one sounds better and test both on gigs/rehearsals ... if you decide to sell the conn let me know
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