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I found my holy grail, and now I'm terrified.


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jaysonr
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 797
Location: Conway, NC

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: I found my holy grail, and now I'm terrified. Reply with quote

I know you should never pick/try mouthpieces because they are used by <insert famous player here>, but I admit, I'd always wanted to try a "real" 1C rim/5B cup setup, à la Phil Smith.

I found one on eBay recently -- probably paid a bit too much, but I bought it. The seller said the work was done by Jeff Parke. It looks like a pre big-letter, post corp. piece by the stamping on the 5B underpart. According to the seller Parke widened the cup a bit in the top half to match the 1C rim and put in a 24/24 setup. I will add that the top part of the cup is raw brass as a result, I'm hoping/assuming since that doesn't come in direct contact with me, that's okay...right? Also, I'm not sure if it's the Hagstrom or the Merkelo 24...but, whatever it is, I don't care. This particular 1C rim is also quite comfortable. I'm not sure what generation it's from, but it felt like a comfortable pair of shoes I'd already broken in.

I once read an interview with David Bilger where he said something like "when you find the right mouthpiece you'll feel like you unlocked a secret code" (I'm paraphrasing badly from memory, but it was something like that).

I thought I had experienced that before, but this was the most profound experience with a mouthpiece I've ever experienced. It's quite sublime. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. is easier. I feel like I suddenly, overnight really learned how to play the trumpet. I've never experienced real, ear-buzzing, head-rattling resonance when I played before, but everything lines up just right with this thing, and it's quite astonishing. I can pick up the horn cold, and with a whisper or a roar produce a clear, ringing, resonate tone. I've never been able to do that before this easily. It's hard to explain.

I know, honeymoon period and all that jazz, but for real guys. This thing is special (at least for me). I've even got another mouthpiece on the way from a fellow TH'er I've been wanting to try, and now I'm hesitant to even try it when it gets here, because I don't want to mess up any mojo that might be going on, haha. I know that is silly, but that's just how I feel at this point.

I've tried Curry "BC" pieces and Parke 285 cups, both which are supposed to be similar to a setup like this, but at least with this specimen, they aren't, at least not in how they play and sound.

I almost feel like I won the lottery or something.

Anyway, I know it's all silly, and probably just in my head, but I wanted to share.

Now...I'm terrified I'll lose it or something will happen to it.

J.


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maxfinis
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Joined: 02 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post. Congratulations. Most safaris don't end as triumphantly or definitively as yours. (Downside is that you have no excuse to blame your equipment now!) The best thing is that you seem to have found the perfect rim. I can't comment on the raw brass on the cup (I would have left the uneven edge as is), but the good thing is that you can now thread another cup to your 1C if the 5B underpart doesn't work out. My memory of Bilger's comment is that a new piece should feel good instantly, and that one shouldn't expect a prolonged acclimation period to realize it's the right fit, something like that.
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jaysonr
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Location: Conway, NC

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what the inside of the cup looks like:



It matches up perfectly.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on finding the "right" mouthpiece for you! Out of curiosity, have you tried the Stork New York series S1? Stork describes it as a Mount Vernon 5B cup fit to a 1C rim.
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats, nothing like a safari-killer to make you relax and just make music better!

I'd personally want to get the cup plated to be on the safe side, but if you're sure your lips aren't touching it then it should be okay.
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jaysonr
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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Location: Conway, NC

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
Congratulations on finding the "right" mouthpiece for you! Out of curiosity, have you tried the Stork New York series S1? Stork describes it as a Mount Vernon 5B cup fit to a 1C rim.


I haven't. I did a search on here about those once, and John Urness (johntpt) had posted that it didn't feel much like a 1C rim at all to him...plus they are fairly expensive.

At least now that I have a good 1C rim, I can get some calipers and measure at the junction point, and it'll be easy to get different underparts.

I really think this 5B cup is where the magic is happening. The bottom of the cup and the throat entrance are very relaxed, and it just works beautifully.
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trumpetman.rob
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's sweet. I've been looking for one myself.
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Grits Burgh
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Joined: 04 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jasonr,

Glad to hear you found a piece you like.

I do have a question.

I have a Bach 1C that I really like. However, for the past three months I have been playing a Curry 3C exclusively because I am practicing using the Claude Gordon Systematic Approach which includes quite a bit of work in the upper register (from high C to double high C). The 1C is comfortable and I love the sound (more than the 3C), but with the larger piece I don't have the endurance to use it for practice in the upper register.

Do you regularly practice notes in the extreme high register? Are you able to use your mouthpiece to practice notes above high C?

Regards,
Grits
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jaysonr
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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Location: Conway, NC

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
Jasonr,

Glad to hear you found a piece you like.

I do have a question.

I have a Bach 1C that I really like. However, for the past three months I have been playing a Curry 3C exclusively because I am practicing using the Claude Gordon Systematic Approach which includes quite a bit of work in the upper register (from high C to double high C). The 1C is comfortable and I love the sound (more than the 3C), but with the larger piece I don't have the endurance to use it for practice in the upper register.

Do you regularly practice notes in the extreme high register? Are you able to use your mouthpiece to practice notes above high C?

Regards,
Grits


I'm not an extreme high-note player by any means. The highest note I truly "own" is high E on my Bb (and high D on my C), and some days they feel like a rent-to-own where I missed a payment, haha. I can sometimes get higher, but I don't feel like I own (or can even rent) those notes...if they are there, they are squeaks at best.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: I found my holy grail, and now I'm terrified. Reply with quote

jaysonr wrote:
I once read an interview with David Bilger where he said something like "when you find the right mouthpiece you'll feel like you unlocked a secret code" (I'm paraphrasing badly from memory, but it was something like that).

I thought I had experienced that before, but this was the most profound experience with a mouthpiece I've ever experienced. It's quite sublime. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. is easier. I feel like I suddenly, overnight really learned how to play the trumpet. I've never experienced real, ear-buzzing, head-rattling resonance when I played before, but everything lines up just right with this thing, and it's quite astonishing. I can pick up the horn cold, and with a whisper or a roar produce a clear, ringing, resonate tone. I've never been able to do that before this easily. It's hard to explain.

...

I almost feel like I won the lottery or something.

Anyway, I know it's all silly, and probably just in my head, but I wanted to share.

Now...I'm terrified I'll lose it or something will happen to it.

J.



I know precisely how you feel. A friend recently let me try a Marcinkiewicz made by Jon Lewis while he was still working there. It's based on a 1 1/2 rim, has a 25 throat and some kind of hybrid backbore. It does everything I need it to, with a fat resonant sound and an ease of playing I've never experienced in any other mouthpiece.

I'm freaking out because there is no other mouthpiece like this anywhere. It's one of many Jon Lewis made while he was making his own mouthpieces. I don't even think Marcinkiewicz has this one on file.

So now I'm guarding it with my life until I have enough to pay Curry to scan and copy it.
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Dr. Manhattan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congradulations!
I still feel like I am on a mouthpiece safari, though I am getting closer and closer! Maybe another 20 years to go to be sure!
About 4 years ago I found the right horn, getting close with the mouthpiece, and now............ a Trumpet case and combo case safari! I guess that comes with being a trumpet player!

Again,
Congrats on the Mouthpiece find!
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: I found my holy grail, and now I'm terrified. Reply with quote

jaysonr wrote:


Now...I'm terrified I'll lose it or something will happen to it.


And thus you discover why so many of us know it is impossible to replicate a mpc. Scans don't really cut it. The Kanstul mpc comparator doesn't even much come close. Many explain all this by saying "light is magic," in that the optical scans may accurately pick up light bouncing around, but not necessarily the metal.

Some really work their craft, maintaining very exacting tolerances. Of course if it's made by a great machinist with a CNC, it can be duplicated very well, assuming the file has saved all parameters.

I think your magic piece has a certain aesthetic appeal, just as it is. You should try some of the mentioned pieces designed to do what you've got, not thinking any of them would be the same, but just to have something close. Just in case. And to find out what comes closest for you, while there is no pressure.

When I found my 'magic mpc,' much like yours, I quickly found I cannot afford to play it. It limits my upper register too much, and that's what I get paid to do. And I can't switch from it to my best lead mpc and retain my ability to play it. (I'm good for about 3 days of practicing both, but after that I lose it)

So enjoy what you've got, and congrats!
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a high range player ( anything above high C is questionable on any given day ) but I do play a lot of music with a G or A above the scale and I find that difficult with a 3C, so a 1 1/2C would be way too big for me. Before my come back last spring, I played for 12 years in the 50s and 60s. I played a Bach 10 1/2 C and it served me well. Since my comeback I've tried different size mps and I keep coming back to the 10 1/2C but my main one now is the CW rim version and I also use an A cup ( very deep ) version now and then for that cornet sound.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaysonr wrote:
Here is what the inside of the cup looks like:



It matches up perfectly.



maybe there is a Holy Grail after all. By the look of your photo my last piece, the borrowed Jettone Studio C, is a look-alike! Kinda combined C/V cup? Maybe yours could have a somewhat rounder rim?

Posting my concerns about the Jettone the other day I now find I can use it, flatter rim or not.

Should we thus consider ourselves blessed?
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ruotjoh
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm truly happy for you! It's a magical moment when everything seems to match with a new mouthpiece but still I've been there for several times and when the honeymoon is over things start to change and the One might become paperweight. You really can't tell if it's good match for you in the long term until you have played it couple months. Good luck anyway!
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jaysonr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:

maybe there is a Holy Grail after all. By the look of your photo my last piece, the borrowed Jettone Studio C, is a look-alike! Kinda combined C/V cup? Maybe yours could have a somewhat rounder rim?

Posting my concerns about the Jettone the other day I now find I can use it, flatter rim or not.

Should we thus consider ourselves blessed?


If I'm remembering Jet Tone cups correctly, there is probably some similarity in basic shape, as well as with Curry BC pieces which are similar to a 1-piece version of this.

The cup would much deeper that a Jet Tone though (at least any I've ever seen).
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jaysonr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruotjoh wrote:
I'm truly happy for you! It's a magical moment when everything seems to match with a new mouthpiece but still I've been there for several times and when the honeymoon is over things start to change and the One might become paperweight. You really can't tell if it's good match for you in the long term until you have played it couple months. Good luck anyway!


I'm hopeful the honeymoon doesn't wear off.

I'm sure it will not be the last piece I ever play, especially as it is not suited to every style of playing -- it's an Orchestral piece for sure. But it sure is playing great right now!

I'm hopeful the other piece I have coming will work nearly as well when I need something a bit brighter (it's a Pickett MC-1, Mark Clodfelter piece, which if I understand correctly is his favorite 1C rim on a cup that is very slightly shallower than a 1C normally would be, maybe more like a 1-1/4C cup).
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jaysonr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the cup that is magical, and perhaps whatever 24 backbore Jeff Parke put in, but I think it's the cup.

I have a 1C here, stock 27/10, and I just spent some time side-by-side playing. The rims feel identical. I closed my eyes and had someone handing me the pieces w/o telling me which was which, sometimes handing me the same piece in sequence, etc., and I couldn't tell them apart.

The 1C/5B is a considerably "larger" piece both in cup and considering the more open throat/backbore.

There is simply something magical about this 5B cup.

Everything is easier, and accuracy is spot on, on both Bb and C.

Sound, articulation, accuracy, soft, loud (I don't think you can play too loud on this thing, it just keeps going, and going...), intonation. Everything. I finally found it. Eureka! The one!
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations! I know the safari you have been on....
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KerryParker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a find!! How'd you come across it?
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