Deleting of threads

[trumpet.sanity]

Does anybody else think often, threads get deleted entirely too soon.

A forum is a place to discuss, share, sometimes disagree and sometimes even butt heads over topics.

There will be a lot of social justice warriors, and pc police supporters, that will say how thankful, and grateful they are for the moderators. And how their delicate sensibilities have been saved by the moderators censoring something that may be disagreeable to them.

I understand that the moderators don't want the TH to be a war zone of conflict and arguments. But come on. To quote one of my favorite Rocky lines "the world ain't all sunshine and rainbows".

And if weve become too delicate and sensitive to have a discussion, we are in worse shape as a society than I thought.

Toghen up buttercups. Sticks and stones break bones....not text on the internet.

[Eddie Jeffries]

[trumpet.sanity]

There just words, man.

This attitude of needing and wanting people to step in more and more, is just a reason why our country is so loaded with over burdensome laws and regulations and bureaucracy.

Often from knee jerk reactions and manufactured outrage.

We've become so hypersensitive and expect some "authority" to swoop in every time our feelings are hurt. In spite of the betterment of the common good.

[Eddie Jeffries]

[trumpet.sanity]

[Nonsense Eliminator]

First of all, politics and religion are off-limits here for very good reason. We are here to discuss the trumpet. When we stick to that, everybody gets along better. You weren't around to see how things when before, so you'll have to take my word for it, but it made for a lot of unfriendliness.

Secondly, this is not about "social justice warriors" or whatever politically-charged insult is currently popular. This is about politeness and civility. Those are not new-fangled concepts. This board is operated by a private individual and he is free to decide what the rules are. If you don't like them, you are free to go elsewhere.

Finally, words matter. Some people around here -- myself included -- earn a living playing and teaching the trumpet. Our reputations matter to us, so how we behave here and what others are allowed to say about us have real, tangible consequences in the real world. If we want people who have careers playing the trumpet (and in particular ones with more to offer than the likes of me) to contribute here -- and I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't -- we need to create an atmosphere where they can participate freely and openly without worrying about their names getting dragged through the mud.
_________________
Richard Sandals
NBO

[Moderators]

Richard summed it up nicely. Those of us who have been on this site for a long time (since the beginning, for many of us) remember the dietris from allowing political and religious "discussions" and have witnessed over and over the fallout from personal attacks on players amateur and professional. I suggest that, if you do not like the TH rules, you find a different site to frequent, or start your own.

BTW, this site is run by a sysadmin and team of volunteers with limited time to deal with the volume of traffic and number of complaints. If a thread is brought to the attention of the moderators, it is usually quickly taken down for review until somebody (or several somebodies) has time to look it over. The result may range from restoring it without comment, edits and restoration, or deletion.

Finally, a reminder to all that BY FAR the best response to a "bad" post or thread is to PM the Moderators. Posting in the thread tends to simply create a bigger mess to clean up.

[trumpet.sanity]

"Go tell a teacher, don't get involved, call the police, wait for an adult, never fight, never break up a fight, wait for the and go tell the authorities"

This mentality has really weakened and emasculated our society. It has eroded our society to the point 2 guys with box cutters can take over an airplane, while hundreds sit and wait for some authority figure to swoop in and save the day.

It creates hypersensitivity, entitlement, reactionary behaviors and hyper manufactured outrage. Often making mountains out of molehills.

And I understand these are the rules that are enforced by a few moderators, that's the way it is. And if "I don't like it I can not participate (paraphrasing)" but, the thin skin from a bunch of supposedly alpha male trumpeters, is mind boggling

[Turkle]

trumpet.sanity, you are unfortunately very wrong on this issue.

The internet, unlike, say, a face to face conversation, sticks around for a very long time. Slander, hateful speech, and sheer malign idiocy on a Google-searchable forum like this can easily ruin reputations and even destroy careers and lives.

No one is getting fabulously rich making trumpets, repairing instruments, teaching trumpet lessons, or performing the trumpet. Most musicians and those in the more general music business are small business owners, getting by as best they can with as many irons in the fire as they can manage.

Slander, badmouthing, and ugly rumors online can cause catastrophic damage to small businesses. I have seen this firsthand. Yelp is bad enough (and oh Lord is it bad) without using this fine trumpet forum to carelessly slander and insult small businesses and our fellow musicians.

So obviously the above must be prevented. But there is of course the larger issue of just plain not being a huge jerk. Perhaps you can imagine some sort of utility for all trumpet players to come together and badmouth the people, products, and services we don't like. That is the very definition of a pathologically damaged and ugly community, and I think that very few people are interested in participating in it. That you have somehow convinced yourself that these are features of a community you would enjoy engaging with, is to me evidence that you might want to reconsider your priorities in life.

That we would like this forum to be a positive, mutually reinforcing and supportive, educational, and valuable place to hang out and shoot the breeze about our musical hobbies, passion, and profession, is not a sign of hypersensitivity or any other pathology. It is merely a wish to enforce the minimum standards of communication necessary for a successful and welcoming public forum, whether on the internet or in face-to-face communication. Refusal to understand the above is, frankly, baffling, and is not evidence of good character.

Many people behave online in a manner that they would never do so in "real life." I assume this is the case here.

Cheers,

Turkle
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[trumpet.sanity]

Well, like,I said I'm glad the TH is here, and I enjoy talking and learning from all over the world. I've found a couple of instruments from TH'ers.

I've never had my feelings hurt, or had any banter that was malicious beyond debate. Only once or twice have I seen and political stuff or religious stuff that has been out of line. But the mere mention of it brings the SJW and outraged few, and then along comes the moderators and the thread is deleted.

As trumpeters in the music business, we are surrounded in the real world with politics and religion. With who we work with, where we work, who hires us, or not. Church gigs, weddings and other religious services. I don't think the mere mention of those subjects warrants a cyber freak out.

Slander, liable issues, bad mouthing a player or manufacturer?? Interestingly, it depends on the "who" as to when the moderators decide to end a conversation. Seems picking winners and losers happens here too.

But I get the vibe, and just was curious of other folks opinions. Seems I'm in the minority (perhaps the silent majority?) but that's cool. I'll respect the guidelines obviously, but I see these same people who go sending the moderators pm's as the same as the kid in school running to the teacher, or the coworker going to the boss to stir up trouble, often more trouble than it's worth over some minor comment that disagrees with them.

[Eddie Jeffries]

Many years ago I posted in a newsgroup devoted to a debate subject.

The debate opposition could not refute any of my debate points.

So they resorted to destroying my reputation.
For about 5 years they posted the most vile lies about me.
They figured that if they could destroy my reputation then nobody would listen to my debate points.

Then people in another moderated newsgroup banned me from posting there because they believed the false accusations made against me in the other newsgroup.

A couple of years ago my cousin did a Google search of my name and she was shocked to see hundreds of vile false accusations made against me in that debate newsgroup.
She asked me about it and I had to explain it to her.

How many 100's of other people have come across those old false accusations and automatically believed them?

100 years from now someone will see those vile false accusations in the Internet archives and will believe those lies.
My reputation has been permanently damaged, and for a long time after I am dead.

.
_________________
eddiejeffries@hotmail.com

.

[LittleRusty]

It is pretty clear that this forum doesn't want political discussions. And it is a much better place now that the religion and politics forum is gone. I used to participate in that forum, but don't miss it at all now. (I wonder what it would be like now with the current political climate )

The moderators do occasionally allow political discussions when they intersect with our musical interests or jobs. For instance some discussion of unions as they pertain to playing professionals has been allowed.

But to post about R or P always risks having the post or thread pulled.

I for one like the way things are now.

[trumpet.sanity]

Eddie,

That's terrible man. I hope you've resolved that issue with searches, or gotten the bad articles taken down. That is a TERRIBLE problem with the internet.

I'm sorry you went/a going through that. Nasty people out there, and the internet is an unforgiving place with a forever memory.

[bamajazzlady]

For those that may not (like trumpet.sanity) not understand that the Internet is a reflection, albeit exaggerated, of a society that is full of positive and negative behavior, which we all can engage in, by choice and/or circumstance, Moderators can only do so much. I've had Moderators step in when things were said about me that I found offensive, and I was made aware by a few of the nicer TH members who the trolls are.

As for Kurt Thompson, one only has to search TH to know the kind of person he is, ditto for Capt. Kirk.
_________________
"Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending." - Maria Robinson

[Craig Swartz]

Hey, kids:

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Matthew 7, 1-2 to give proper historical reference. I hope people don't go all "religious" over this as The Bible is, if nothing else, also a historical reference book.)

I really feel sorry for people (Mods, too) who take comments so personally on the internet from people they have never had the honor (or horror) of meeting, face to face and over a length of time long enough to have a discussion. Life's too damn short down here... Good luck.

[blbaumgarn]

I agree with alot of the comments earlier. We have all enjoyed playing music individually and in groups of varying sizes. I just got to thinking that in all the years I played, whoever I sat next to, the most important thing was to experience the music. Where they were at in a belief system had no bearing. I have been a part of a recovery group for over 32 years and we try to keep politics out of the flow there, also.

[LaTrompeta]

It's clear to me that what some people consider "bullying and harassment" is not actually so. We don't have a right "not to be offended." If somebody has deeply held beliefs that offend somebody else, they still have the right to express those beliefs without suffering retribution.

I have no idea what thread got taken down, but it's pretty typical around here. TrumpetMaster is a much friendlier environment than this site.