Any consensus? Heavy caps, brass guides, tone intensifiers?

[trumpet_bob_silver]

Heavy valve caps
brass valve guides
tone intensifiers

Am I missing any?

Do those actually do anything? Just personal preference/belief?


The only things I'm coming up with is they might be at just the right spot (a node or the opposite) where it affects the sound wave inside somehow. Or, a little extra weight shifts how the horn balances in the hands and on the embouchure which affects the sound.

Then there's the placebo effect and the Mac effect (buy it, pay more, you'll like it and think it's better regardless of anything else). But those wouldn't actually affect the tone except through the performer believing they're playing better, so maybe they do (and if the placebo effect produces a positive effect, great, that works for some people).


Beyond the list above, I was wondering if you can attach a some weight to the horn (hit those different points) and see if there's any effect on tone.

[JLoyalist]

Any weight added to a horn WILL make a difference.


How much/What kind of a difference this makes will depend on the horn, how much weight you add, and where you add it.


I personally use brass valves guides on my horn. I find it effects the slots, and the way the horn vibrates in my hand. Personally...I like it.


I also add a heavy cap to my third valve. I find it thickens the sounds, and effects the slots in a way that I like. My sound is pretty bright to begin with so I find adding a little more weight helps to balance out the highs and lows in my sound in general.


It's all about personal preference.


There are many great players that use accessories that add weight to their horns like Arturo Sandoval for instance.


There are also MANY other great players who don't.

Try it out. The only thing it could possibly hurt is your wallet

[HERMOKIWI]

Whether and to what extent heavy valve caps, brass valve guides, tone intensifiers, etc. actually affect the sound and/or response to any significant degree is very controversial. The topic is further complicated by the fact that changes in the sound and/or response are not necessarily positive changes but, instead, are usually trade offs. You might get something but you might give up something in exchange. There's no universal agreement on what constitutes the "best" sound and response. There are a lot of trumpets available and they offer a multitude of different approaches to these topics.

I arbitrarily lump heavy valve caps, brass valve guides, tone intensifiers, etc. into the "gadget" category. My own opinion is that the effect of gadgets on sound and response is insignificant compared to changing such things as mouthpieces, leadpipes, bell tapers and metal composition.

Why not just buy a trumpet that sounds the way you want it to sound and responds the way you want it to respond with the mouthpiece you want to use from day one? If you want to change something about the sound and/or response, why not just change the mouthpiece? Changing the mouthpiece is far more likely to significantly change the sound and/or response than adding gadgets.

I'm not opposed to the use of gadgets even if they don't change anything about the sound and/or response. There are psychological aspects to playing trumpet. If a player thinks a gadget improves something this can give the player more confidence which, in turn, can make playing more satisfying, can encourage more practicing, etc. I'm in favor of anything that produces such results.

I think there's too much emphasis on equipment. There are no magic trumpets, magic mouthpieces or magic gadgets. The trumpet is all about the player's level of skill. A highly skilled player can sound great on any quality trumpet without the addition of gadgets.
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HERMOKIWI

[trumpet_cop]

I've tried Bach and Curry heavy caps, Tweeqers, brass valve guides, brass valve stems, and have tested mouthpiece sleeves. I would agree that most do in fact fall into the gadget column, except the guides and stems as they are actual parts of your instrument that deal with it's operation. Kinda like a good knee brace during athletic events.

The things I have noticed making tangible, positive differences have been the brass guides and stems. not much weight at all, but put in those spots, it seems to really help. Hermokiwi is also correct in asserting that alloy plays a large factor into sound and response. Tested plenty of boutique tuning slides, and have returned to plain brass.

While fun to go nuts buying gadgets and accessories, in the end it is more fruitful to practice in a good space and try not to get caught up in the madness.

[solo soprano]

First saw Warren Vache use them at the N.Y. Brass Conference in SUNY Purchase, N.Y. the year Bill Vacchiano was in attendance. I use them on my trumpets & flugelhorn because they look cool. Can't really tell if it makes any difference?


"The Amrein Tone Enhancer does just that. They slide easily over the bell of your trumpet or trombone (flugelhorn) to prevent the sympathetic vibration of the bell, especially at high dynamic levels. Your sound is then projected forward instead of outward offering you greater tonal center and projection."
WWBW
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Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music

[zaferis]

A consensus? Probably not.

I do like having brass guides inplace on my Bach's as well as a single tone ring on bottom 3rd valve.

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Stradivarius-Trumpet-Valve-Lacquer/dp/B008D2ICHK

The brass vavle guides do add a bit of security to the feel, how notes slot in a positive direction for me.
The tone ring does a similar thing but not to the extent of a heavy weight bottom cap-which after a while I feel dulls out my tone just a little too much - I like the trumpet to have some vibration expecially at louder dynamics.
Addmittedly, the tone ring's affect is small, but because I think it helps, I like it, thus I relax, thus I play better - could be only a psychological improvement,

I have demonstrated the tone ring's affect infront of a class room full of band students, that had no idea of what I was doing, but 100% of the class noticed a difference in the sound of my trumpet. I played an excerpt with the tone ring, then without, different excerpts and a different order of which I played with the ring mounted. Predominanlty the students prefered the sound with the tone ring in place.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Brad361]

I doubt you'll get any consensus, but what I think many will agree upon is that they can at least slightly affect how a horn plays, but whether that affect is positive or not depends on the individual's definition of "positive."

I have come to believe that adding mass in places to a horn that was not designed to have it there probably is not going to be a good thing.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[trumpet.sanity]

[kevin_soda]

[Tpt_Guy]

[kevin_soda]

Yeah, I have heavy caps on my Bach too. I haven't noticed any difference playing with or without. My Calicchio was made with heavy caps and, again, I notice no difference. I'm not recording these tests or playing in front of a whole class of people though so maybe I just can't tell from where I'm sitting.
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Kevin

[musicman0097]

I have heavy bottom caps on my main Bb and my Flugelhorn. I personally like them. I find these heavy caps make notes easier to slot and upper register is easier. There is a sweetspot. Too light and too heavy is bad. Another concept that goes hand and hand with weight is balance. For example, I have a Benge, which is super light, and it plays pretty well with the right lightweight mouthpiece paired with it. For my Bach, both the horn is heavy as well as my mouthpiece.
_________________
Matthew Porter

"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, learning from failure"- Colin Powell

[ErikE]

A heavy weight bottom cap on the 3rd valve of Bach Strad flugel makes the grip much more comfortable, especially while working the 3rd trigger. It also might add a little more weight to the sound as a bonus.
_________________
Erik Esvelt
Selmer Paris Sigma
Strad Flugel

[Brad361]

[Dale Proctor]

I've tried heavy bottom caps on my Bach Strads (Bb, C, and cornet) and I don't like them. They do seem to add a bit more density to the sound and make slotting slightly better, but they make the instruments less agile and make playing in the upper register a little more difficult. Since the Bachs already have a nice sound and good slotting, there is no advantage (for me) to using them.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Pete]

I think that the addition or subtraction of weight helps with feedback more than anything else. And every horn responds differently depending on the player, mouthpiece, etc.

Pete

[adagiotrumpet]

When they first started to appear on the scene, I thought heavy caps were just a gimmick. Then, years ago, I visited Mark Curry and tried a set on my Schilke B3. It added more core to the sound, which was what I was after, but took away a lot of the edge to the sound, so I eventually removed them. Now that I had a set, I tried them on my Schilke P5-4. It added more core to the sound and took away some of the edge and I left them on, as for me this was an improvement. I then added a set to my flugelhorn and it did the same thing, which for me, which was again an improvement.

Originally a skeptic, I have come to realize that heavy caps definitely alter the sound, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

[Steve A]

I had to laugh at the word "consensus". Is there anything like consensus on anything trumpet related? Not around here, anyway.

[trickg]

[Bflatman]

I think you guys have hit it.

The better the horn, the more together it is, the less these devices affect it. A strad or a schilke is not helped much by them or maybe is made worse for the addition.

On the other hand a questionable cheap as chips under-performing horn maybe can benefit from a tweak or two.

My own horns vary greatly in tone and responsiveness depending on the weight and size of the mouthpiece, although I expect all horns to be mouthpiece sensitive, horns with "deficiences" I find can be "helped".

I think these devices are just another tool in the armoury and certainly useful tuning aids to get the tones I want.