Conn 6B vs Connstellation 38B

[jojocat]

[Dale Proctor]

I'd guess that it was a victim of a stuck mouthpiece and some pliers or vice-grips in the past. Yes, it's a later model 6B...good luck with it!

Mine's been stored in the closet for 3 or 4 years, but doesn't look like it had been played much before I bought it.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[lipshurt]

The only way to change it is to cut it off and then try to add a different receiver over the cutoff end. The original receiver was not soldered on.
It looks like what you have is a director pipe or other copper pipe.
The two receivers in the picture look like a conn connstellation pipe from the mid 80's (the extra one in the picture) which were made to look like the ones from the 60's which were all one piece with the whole pipe. The one that is soldered on looks like an old olds receiver. I don't know olds very well but it looks just like the old cornet receivers that I've switched out many times for people looking to get an olds to be compatible with Bach cornet pieces.

I would use the extra receiver in the picture and see if it fits on the end of that pipe. The Venturi should be .330 which is rather small and the gap should be .112.

My guess is that it does not fit but the one that is soldered on fits. I bet the one soldered on has a big gap but that is a guess. If the gap is close to correct I would leave it. The other one looks more original though.
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Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[jojocat]

[jojocat]

If it's the original 6B leadpipe that have been cut, I'll have intonation issues if I install the replacement reviever. Will be too short. That's perhaps why the gut who did the modification chose a longer reciever...

Sounds not good...

Are these 6B coprion reciever/leadpipe a rare find?
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[lipshurt]

by looking at your pipe, it looks like its close to the right length. If they cut off the receiver because of damage or stuck mouthpiece they would only cut off bout 16th off the actual length of the pipe. Thats all the "overlap" that is there.

The pipe is made on two mandrels that are bolted together >< style.
Then its electro-formed with really thick copper. The thickness of the receiver, that thick. Then they take this super thick pipe and put in a lathe and turn down the big end until its the size to fit the top slide tube. That means they take about half the thickness away. They they turn down the receiver end except for the last 1.25 inches which they they leave thick. If you have ever seen the repair part you can see how they do it cuz the repair part was not sanded or buffed You can see the lathe tool marks.

SO i still think that your later conn receiver in the picture might still be a good receiver for that pipe. The problem is probably that it does not fit, and its probably too small to fit over that thick pipe. It would need to be hollowed out, and since its tapered like that would be hard to hold in a lathe chuck. The alternative, (if i'm right in all of these guesses!) would be to file the end of the pipe down. Not too hard at all. And do it so the gap is right. There won't be a lot of overlap though, judging by the look of it. That is the way the 38B reboot from the mid 80's looked too. And that is where that receiver looks like it came from.

Or you can have someone make new one from scratch with the right size hollow out, and bit longer to get ore overlap, and even cut the hollow out on a taper to match the taper of the end of the pipe. That is what i would do, and i would make it out of copper too.
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[razeontherock]

[fabiopereirabr]

[lipshurt]

chet sounds great on the 38b in that clip (not a surprise)

The only thing i ever read about the chet not liking the 38b was an article in the detroit free press sunday edition in 1975 or 1976 about his current comeback at that time. He said that he had a new connstellation and the bore was really big so he had to breathe deep. Nice article, i was a junior in high scholar the time, and it got me into chet baker, and also the 38B.

He plays the 38B on all those iconic albums fro the late 70's...and the sound is just fabulous like in the video.

right now i'm using the 36B for everything just because i have one that is extra good.
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[Dale Proctor]

[Greenleaf]

I had one of those pass through here a while back . . .



Traded it for this one . . .



and kept this one as my wide wrap . . .


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[jojocat]

Hey guys,

I had 4 Conns under the radar:

1.A Connstellation from the 80's in mint condition. Price was ridiculous but I passed on this one.
2. A '61 Connstellation that was too expensive for my budget. It's for sale for a while but the seller didn't want to lower the price enough.
3. A 6B in pristine condition at a very fair price. The seller and I got a deal, but then he told me he put the horn in storage a year ago and can't find it....he will call be back when he'll find it.
4. A 6B with lots of scars and wear, the one I sent some photos of. Got it for $155. Fair enough. The valves are in excellent condition with lot of compression. Everything is fixable.

First, I've been surprised how much it's free blowing for a .438 bore. I'll need an acclimation for the high register, but overall, very easy to blow.

Then the sound has a very wide and rich palette! From, dark, smokey, intimate tone to bright and powerful. I love it. To me, it's definitely a jazz player.

It plays well with the non original reciever although it can't take any mouthpiece; for example i've played with a Curry 3DE and a Bach 1 1/2, but the reciever is too large for my Curry 1.5 TF and my Obrac copy of B2S3.

The leadpipe is shorter of 10 mm, so he's been cut just like Lipshurt thought and like he said ( such a expert guy!! ) the replacement reciever, probably a Connstellation part, is too narrow to be soldered without modification.

I love this big bell small bore combination to continue to look for a Connstellation who fits in my budget. And if the seller of the other 6B finds the horn into his mess, I'll surely jump on it.
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[jojocat]

By the way, anyone has a 6B coprion leadpipe/rceiever for sale?
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[jojocat]

measured the gap of the actual reciever with 2 mps that works well with this horn.

With a Bach 1 1/2, the gap is about 0.170
With my Selmer PAris 2, it is 0.190

I made some phone calls and the only used 6B pipe/reciever I found would cost me 100 Euros + shipping. I'm not that hopeless....

Would a Constellation reciever fit to a 6B? I ask the question cause if I'm right Kanstul make a copy of the Constellation.
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[jojocat]

Lipshurt, I followed your instructions and I installed the replacement reciever.

First thing, you were right, it doesn't fit. The leadpipe outer diameter is too large...I have a lathe but I'm not used to work on tapered material so I decided to do it by hand. I wasn't comfortable with the idea of squeezing this delicate leadpipe inside the nasty steel jaws...

I filed and sanded the leadpipe on about 3/8'' giving the file an angle to get a tapered shape. God...when you're used on a lathe you don't like to work by hand. The leadpipe have to remain in a round shape.

I also increased the inner diameter of a portion of the reciever, just the lenght for the leadpipe to fit in. For this I had a special tapered file that I mounted on my Foredom ( a BIG industrial Dremel ).

So here we are, it fits right. The mouthpiece gap is 0.115''. See the last photo of this file:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q15febekpqwm54q/AADsbskj_aYY11KsWhtsnI3xa?dl=0

I took the photo yesterday late in the day, so it's not a good one. Anyway it gives you an idea.

The horn plays and most of all responds way better now . The only issue is that I have to pull the tuning slide of about 3/4'' cause the leadpipe was too short.

I found a brand new original reciever/leadpipe in Germany, but wow it's not free: 100 Euros + shipping. I think about keeping the horn like this, but I know the pulled tuning slide will titilate me...

What's your opinion?
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[jojocat]

Correction made: I double checked with a micro tuner and then with my keyboard and I have to pull the slide of a bit less than 1/2 ''.

Think I saved 100 Euros!!
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[Dale Proctor]

Great! Sounds like you solved the problem. Glad it worked out.
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[jojocat]

[bach_again]

I'm on the perennial hunt for a cheap 6B/22B. Seeing your story was enjoyable, and a great outcome! Health to play my friend!!
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[jojocat]