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The Stevens-Costello Triple C book



 
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: The Stevens-Costello Triple C book Reply with quote

Available various places. While I don't and can not use the Costello forward jaw embouchure I am still a huge fan of the exercises. That and practicing pressure-less.

Granted the book stirred up controversy. This due to both Roy's and William's (Stevens & Costello respectively) insistence upon using that forward jaw embouchure setting. And from my perspective the dissent among failed and failing students of Roy's is justified. As Doc Reinhardt so eloquently noted,

"You can't fight mother nature".

Reinhardt had a host of students who couldn't apply the chop settiing of Stevens-Costello. And if you ever get a chance to hear Chris Labarbera, (noted master trumpet player) to chat on this matter his thoughts are impressive.

But while the Stevens-Costello directions to form an embouchure are often ill suited for a given brass player the exercises and at least some of his theory is invaluable. Especially the palm practice method. Damn that practice method seems to me to be the single most effective upper register training skill there is. Coupled with Costello's simple arpeggio routines even a hard core "downstream" player like me can develop a solid feel for the extreme high register. Case in point,

Last Nov I quit a big band I was playing lead trumpet in because of various disagreements. Soon after I discovered myself becoming really out of shape. As I had been using this job to maintain strength, accuracy and endurance in the upper register. And it had become a problem big enough to require addressing. The previous three years I had developed some fine lead chops. Good to high G on phrases and about a minor third higher for loud last notes in charts.

(Just as an aside I don't necessarily consider a high note that a trumpet player can finish a chart with as part of his range. Instead I consider his range any note he can play with emotion and musicality in a melody as being a part of the high range. In practice this usually runs about a minor third to a oerfect fifth below the highest note he can finish a chart with. . )

What to do? Well first of all I didn't panic and most importantly didn't set any unrealistic expectations on myself. Instead I just spent a week or so gradually working the Clarke Studies into daily practice. Also about this time I rejoined a concert band I once left. And this was when I started playing the Stevens System arpeggios and exercises exactly as written. Also with the horn just on the palm of my hand.

Was a little frustrating the first week as I couldn't play my high A (above high C) with the trumpet valve casing resting just on the palm of my hand. But only two short weeks later? I got both my high A and B natural to sound solidly in practice and just with the horn balanced on my palm

And as this has only been one month since starting over? I feel optimistic. Like eventually taking this thing to Brisbois like territory. And with the B natural below double C sounding at near forte volume just on the palm of my hand?

This is plenty of range! No need to switch from down to upstream. Now while some of Stevens-Costello isn't applicable to everyone, much of it is. So it's a good read if you stay open minded. Just like anything else in life. Take what works and leave the rest.

Various internet sources have the Stevens-Costello system available. Pretty sure Colin Music's got it. And Roy Roman's site too. Ya gotta love Roy Roman! And a dedicated man of the cloth too.

I believe the correct title is,

"Stevens-Costello Triple C Embouchure Technique"

PS: If the described system doesn't work for you? Don't blame me. As I'm only suggesting the exercises and palm practice technique as being univerally helpful.

Also, I do not use the book's described enbouchure setting either. So no one need to infer that I recommend it in all people. But if it does fit you? You truly can become a monster high note player within days. No exaggeration.
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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I owned a copy of this method until a student got his hands on it. The jaw forward position is compatible with the Cat Anderson and Maggio methods, I think. The palm method for producing "statics" seems similar to both the Cat Anderson and Caruso methods. Your opinion?
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uberopa wrote:
I owned a copy of this method until a student got his hands on it. The jaw forward position is compatible with the Cat Anderson and Maggio methods, I think. The palm method for producing "statics" seems similar to both the Cat Anderson and Caruso methods. Your opinion?


Familiar with all three. Although my experience might possibly be mildly diluted due to studying the Carelton Macbeth edition.

Comments: Maggio as I understand it is not compatible with Stevens-Costello at all. Although the Stevens exercises certainly helpful to any system. Which was my point in the O/T.

The reason Maggio is incompatible with Stevens-Costello is simple. Maggio (or at least Macbeth the editor) specifically directed all his students to "buzz down". Expelling air between closed lips in a downward direction. Which is anathema to Stevens-Costello. S/C a set of materials specifically directing the trumpet player to, "buzz UPwards".

Stevens-Costello also specifically demanding that "no pedal tones to to be used, ever"!. This also a directive Reinhardt issued. "No pedal tones ever". I have learned as per Chris L.

Conversely Maggio IS a pedal tone system. Period.

I'm only vaguely familiar with Cat Anderson's system. That said? Anderson himself was a walking example of the Stevens-Costello system. The forward jaw, less upper more lower lip in mouthpiece, very easily produced high notes. Usually played ob dry lips. Conversely Maggio dictated wet lips always!!. Also I've seen some of Cat's suggestions. Like the "20 minute G". While not found anywhere in Stevens-Costello this very soft practice seems conducive to the development of the S-Costello approach more than Maggio.

In my youth I went through both books and can tell you that Stevens-Costello" and "Maggio" are worlds apart. Absolutely not mutually compatible at all. Other than the exercises which I found to be great in Stevens-Costello.

Oddly however my embouchure itself is textbook perfect Maggio. Go figure?
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The Stevens-Costello Triple C book Reply with quote

Lionel wrote:
the palm practice method. Damn that practice method seems to me to be the single most effective upper register training skill there is. Coupled with Costello's simple arpeggio routines even a hard core "downstream" player like me can develop a solid feel for the extreme high register.


Can you compare the results of using this to developing what Reinhardt called "the pointed feel?"

I'm also wondering how different the result you describe here is to using Reinhardt's putty ball routine?
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: The Stevens-Costello Triple C book Reply with quote

razeontherock wrote:
Lionel wrote:
the palm practice method. Damn that practice method seems to me to be the single most effective upper register training skill there is. Coupled with Costello's simple arpeggio routines even a hard core "downstream" player like me can develop a solid feel for the extreme high register.


Can you compare the results of using this to developing what Reinhardt called "the pointed feel?"

I'm also wondering how different the result you describe here is to using Reinhardt's putty ball routine?



Its been a long time since I went over that part of the Reinhardt system referencing your question. The "Encyclopedia Of The Pivot System". And I no longer have my old copy. So this is a question best asked to someone who actually knew Reinhardt. Or studied with someone like Chris or the host of his students actively continuing his teachings.

The main thing about the palm method is that it seems (to me) to be the most efficient use of practice time developing the upper register. That and all those shakes, slides, "doits" and stuff improve like magic. A stronger connection between player and trumpet is advanced.


I wouldnt necessarily start the palm method and immediately start playing as high as I could. Athough that is what Stevens suggests. Instead I would just get comfortable playing ordinary stuff on the palm.

Remember I'm not a practicioner of the Stevens embouchure. I can still control some serious high notes but my limit on the palm right now is double C but increasing. Naturally I can play higher with arm oressure.

The actual Stevens method applies a forward jaw and often a dry lip setting. These guys play above Double C the first day. Or they soon will with a little practice. But the notes are mere statics.

As a receded jaw player myself I'm not inclined to get statics or wispy little upper register notes that only disappear between triple and quad C. That isnt me.

Instead I use the palm for regular chop development. I also gain a range assist by making alterations to my own mouthpieces. Cutting them quite shallow but with very open flows. These tends to "equalize" my ability in the extreme register with the Stevens System.

So that in net result there's hardly much difference between the results I get blowing "down" compared to what the forward jaw cats can play "up". And a receded jaw player generally has a bigger sound too. With less touchiness in his chops. In other words a tendency for the chops to behave reliably.

The forward jaw system really only works for a minority of trumpet players. As you can plainly see amongst the photos of the vast majority. Although it is more common on the lead chair.
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do the statics but not with the palm. I had a teacher show me these and it would start as a tiny whistle like sound then morph into a full beautiful note around double G or so. I've never got them to morph into musical notes (almost) but they do help me position my embouchure to play evenly.

This guy does a demo of statics....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP0JcS6ITxk
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread! I was going to say I've never heard a demonstration of statics, and have long wondered if I had discovered them on my own. Per chapahi's video link I would conclude "no," because those are blaringly loud. Or as Lynn Nicholson says, he's using both lungs. But then chapahi also writes about statics starting as a tiny whistle like sound, so maybe I did encounter them? My interest is mostly due to not really knowing if they do me any good at all, but they do sometimes seem to cause the effect Lionel speaks of: getting the lips into optimal position which just isn't possible if jamming the horn onto your face, squishing everything.

This is also an oddity that sometimes my playing day starts out best with (Reinhardt style) compression drills, super quiet no strain def not relying on pressure, starting on high C and going up. It just makes me get all my mechanics going right away, and exposes anything I might be doing wrong. So it can make for a very efficient warm-up, for me, when it works. Very much a "less is more" kinda thing.

Lionel, you have your own lathe? I have to wonder if you've ever been able to compare your own creations to what Jim New is making for Lynn Nicholson?
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

razeontherock wrote:
Interesting thread! I was going to say I've never heard a demonstration of statics, and have long wondered if I had discovered them on my own. Per chapahi's video link I would conclude "no," because those are blaringly loud. Or as Lynn Nicholson says, he's using both lungs. But then chapahi also writes about statics starting as a tiny whistle like sound, so maybe I did encounter them? My interest is mostly due to not really knowing if they do me any good at all, but they do sometimes seem to cause the effect Lionel speaks of: getting the lips into optimal position which just isn't possible if jamming the horn onto your face, squishing everything.

This is also an oddity that sometimes my playing day starts out best with (Reinhardt style) compression drills, super quiet no strain def not relying on pressure, starting on high C and going up. It just makes me get all my mechanics going right away, and exposes anything I might be doing wrong. So it can make for a very efficient warm-up, for me, when it works. Very much a "less is more" kinda thing.

Lionel, you have your own lathe? I have to wonder if you've ever been able to compare your own creations to what Jim New is making for Lynn Nicholson?


Hi Ray,

Like your posts!
Ive played Lynn's X-piece once and it impressed me. Unike the great majority of all stock mouthpieces, including shallow "screamer" pieces specifically made for lead work, I COULD use Lynn's piece straight out of the box and play fine with it. So at least to my way of thinking, that's saying something.

The piece which I did borrow had a big enough throat so that I didnt have problems getting a fat enough tone in the middle register. I think the throat was in the low 20's in drill size.

Like compare that to the Schike 6a4a. Now in many respects 6a4a is a good tool except for that damned #28 throat!! That kills it. Crissakes whenever I play a lead gig on a pipsqueak 28 drill throat combined on such a shallow piece as the 6?

My god all I get is pure edge. I've heard recordings of my work on a shallow piece with that #28 throat and it embarrasses the hell out of me. Not so bad when the whole band is playing loudly but other than that? It has a comical level of sizzle.

So glad that didnt hit Youtube!

My lathe is a creation of my own workmanship. I took a "Rigid" brand name right angle drill, the kind construction workers drill those massive 2 to 3 inch holes through wall studs. But I faced my drill upwards. Opposite a drill press. So I can shape my mouthpieces from above. With gravity on my side. Unlike standard lathes which spin the work horizontally. Using the slow speed most/times.

A few radius gauges, a digital caliper and a few cutting tools necessary. As well as some sheets of 150, 300 & 600 grit paper. Solid epoxy is helpful to cast test molds too. As well as for adding material to a cup cut too deep. Or for filling abrasions on a piece which falls on the floor.

Dont forget a large magnifying glass. And safety goggles too.

Having a lathe handy was really important for my chop development. As it allowed me plenty of freedom to try moderate to radical mouthpiece designs. That and a mouthpiece change can accelerate very positive embouchure development. I never used to be able to blow high G without arm pressure. Now I'm gettin C's just on the palm of my hand.

And for me personally the most important thing Ive learned about mouthpieces is that they can allow us to grow in a direction we might never have found without the previous experimentation. Like that same double C I just "brag-shared" abt hitting with the horn resting only on my palm like Roy Stevens. Or Roy Roman's famous video.

Hey I can do that now and even on any standard mouthpiece. But I couldnt have developed that ability had I been stuck with just standard mouthpieces. Indeed it was that described mouthpiece experientation which assisted my development. It was key to taking me into a place I never would have found without the mouthpiece experimentation. But thats just my opinion. The way I see it.

And no, While practicing with horn laying only on my palm I'm not quite truly burning the double C. Not like Roy Roman does (search youtube for "roy roman, pressureless paying"). Who plays the C fantastic.

But my High A is burning! And I expect the C to come in full pretty soon. This is a most happy feeling. Ive really worked hard on this. For a long time. But with the right equipment and ideas? The matter pretty much resolved itself.
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