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TomR
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 Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Mouthpiece for Couesnon flugelhorn |
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Can someone recommend a mouthpiece for a Couesnon flugelhorn? Without breaking the bank.
I am trombonist who noodles around a bit on trumpet and tuba. So, you can assume I have underdeveloped trumpet chops! I picked up an Couesnon flugel that sounds great but the mouthpieces I have don't fit perfectly.
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Tom Rice
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Benge.nut
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Guide to Flugelhorn Tapers Confused about tapers? Me too!
Here's the scoop on flugelhorn mouthpiece tapers. If you are using the wrong taper, you may be experiencing poor intonation and response!
• LARGE Morse taper Commonly known as Standard Taper. fits all Yamaha, Getzen, Callet, Stomvi, Benge, King, Blessing, Conn Vintage One, Weril, Holton, Schilke, older Kanstul 1525 flugelhorns, and most other “American” flugelhorns except Bach.
• SMALL Morse taper The so-called Bach Taper.. fits Bach, Courtois, LeBlanc (including Sandoval), B&S, and some other European brands, plus Kanstul models 725, 1025, and newer 1525.
• FRENCH (straight) taper Also known as Couesnon Taper, French taper is used by original Couesnons, Flip Oakes "Wild Thing," Kanstul CCF 925, and original F. Besson flugelhorns.
Important Note: Using the wrong mouthpiece shank/taper WILL slightly effect some and greatly effect other instruments intonation as well as slotting and just the all around play-ability of the instrument. In short the wrong mouthpiece shank/taper can make a great horn a dog or you may find the dog Flugel you have only needed the correct mouthpiece to play great. |
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Benge.nut
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: |
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So, you're going to need a mouthpiece with a "French" style backbore to fit correctly in a Couesnon.
To avoid breaking the bank, you might check the marketplace here, or eBay for a French flugelhorn piece. Otherwise you may get into more expensive prices as most "stock" mouthpieces won't seat correctly in your horn |
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TomR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I will do that - thanks!
Yeah, I have 2 flugel pmcs - Yamaha and Bach - and they both have the slightest wobble. My experience with trombones is that mpcs that seat correctly play better... 
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Tom Rice
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TrumpetMD
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| TomR wrote: | I will do that - thanks!
Yeah, I have 2 flugel pmcs - Yamaha and Bach - and they both have the slightest wobble. My experience with trombones is that mpcs that seat correctly play better... |
Two options.
1) Maybe a little tape on the end of the shank, to fix the wobble.
2) Try Curry mouthpieces. They are affordable, come in Bach-like sizes, and come in all 3 shanks (small, large, French).
Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Voltrane
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Have also a look at the Stork flugelhorn mouthpieces with the Couesnon taper.
Pretty good and not expensive. |
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TomR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the many suggestions!
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Tom Rice
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Paul Tomashefsky
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Tom, please see a PM (e-mail) that I sent you . . . P.T. 
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iiipopes
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:54 am Post subject: |
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I have two actual Couesnon mouthpieces for my horn. For me, they have better tone and intonation than any of the boutique mouthpieces, and I've tried all three depths of Curry and several others.
For me, the tone did not center and the upper range went really flat on the boutique mouthpieces, By contrast, on the two Couesnon mouthpieces: one is clear and superlative for section blend and the other is really smokey and piquant for solos and ballads.
Of course, I buck the current trend. I do not go after the darkest possible tone, as I believe that deprives a flugel of its innate personality, and renders it nothing more than a soprano euphonium.
As with everything else, each person's mileage will vary.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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TomR
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Paul Tomashefsky wrote: | | Tom, please see a PM (e-mail) that I sent you . . . P.T. |
Paul, I e-mailed you...
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Tom Rice
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TomR
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| iiipopes wrote: | I have two actual Couesnon mouthpieces for my horn. For me, they have better tone and intonation than any of the boutique mouthpieces, and I've tried all three depths of Curry and several others.
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I will keep an eye out for one of these.
But wait.. you have two! 
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Tom Rice
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TomR
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Voltrane wrote: | Have also a look at the Stork flugelhorn mouthpieces with the Couesnon taper.
Pretty good and not expensive. |
Yeah, Stork makes nice stuff.
Anyone used the Marcinkiewicz? There is one on eBay now. I use Marcinkiewicz mpcs on tenor and bass trombone. Awesome.
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Tom Rice
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santiagomusic
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: naples, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| You'll need a flugelhorn mouthpiece with a french taper. I play a cousnon flugel with a Warburton 5FLx. The extra deep cup gives me a very dark sound. I think you'll acclimate better to the deeper cup since you're already used to playing on a bigger mouthpiece. The X cups cup in wider inner diameters as well if you need something wider. Good luck... |
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dbanks
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Whats wrong with a good ol Bach fluegel mpc? Ive been using one for years |
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oldblow
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:40 am Post subject: |
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I use a Marcinkiewicz 303FL, a Shew Marcinkiewicz, and a Couesnon piece with my flugalhorn, and manage intonation quite well by pulling the slides a little. The Shew piece give it a more airy tone, the 303FL a solid tone, and the Couesnon something different yet. I agree with iiipopes about the Couesnon pieces.
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santiagomusic
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:46 am Post subject: flugel mouthpiece |
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| [quote="dbanks"]Whats wrong with a good ol Bach fluegel mpc? Ive been using one for years[/quote] Bach flugel MPs are fine. I also play a bach 7C Fl but it doesn't give me the dark sound I like. However, it is easier to play up to a high C. I've never had chops on flugel. |
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iiipopes
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| TomR wrote: | | iiipopes wrote: | I have two actual Couesnon mouthpieces for my horn. For me, they have better tone and intonation than any of the boutique mouthpieces, and I've tried all three depths of Curry and several others.
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I will keep an eye out for one of these.
But wait.. you have two! |
Heh, heh, heh!
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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iiipopes
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: Re: flugel mouthpiece |
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| santiagomusic wrote: | | dbanks wrote: | | Whats wrong with a good ol Bach fluegel mpc? Ive been using one for years |
Bach flugel MPs are fine. I also play a bach 7C Fl but it doesn't give me the dark sound I like. However, it is easier to play up to a high C. I've never had chops on flugel. |
I tried a Bach flugel mouthpiece in my Queenie. It wobbled until I couldn't play it. The intonation was off, due to the differences in the receiver and leadpipe, and the tone was fuzzy.
I know folks who play Bach flugels, or even some others, where the Bach mouthpiece works very well, indeed. But not on my Queenie. As with everything else, YMMV.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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Benge.nut
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: Re: flugel mouthpiece |
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| iiipopes wrote: | | santiagomusic wrote: | | dbanks wrote: | | Whats wrong with a good ol Bach fluegel mpc? Ive been using one for years |
Bach flugel MPs are fine. I also play a bach 7C Fl but it doesn't give me the dark sound I like. However, it is easier to play up to a high C. I've never had chops on flugel. |
I tried a Bach flugel mouthpiece in my Queenie. It wobbled until I couldn't play it. The intonation was off, due to the differences in the receiver and leadpipe, and the tone was fuzzy.
I know folks who play Bach flugels, or even some others, where the Bach mouthpiece works very well, indeed. But not on my Queenie. As with everything else, YMMV. |
A Bach flugel mp shouldn't fit in a Couesnon receiver. If it does the receiver has been worked on or replaced, or the mp shank has had work done to it.
You need a french mp shank to fit in a French flugelhorn receiver. Bach mouthpieces have a different length and taper. |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Go to mouthpieceexpress.com and click through all the flugelhorn mouthpiece offerings. Several (Curry, Marcinkiewicz, Stork) list Couesnon taper as an option. Others probably offer it as well but only as custom.
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Last edited by cheiden on Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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