Couldn't you recreate the PETE easily, cheaper?

[trumpet_bob_silver]

I glanced at it. $40 though? It looks nice but... $40?

Could you take a pencil or anything thin or thick and tape some weights on it to achieve the same effect?

There's got to be something fairly easily available far cheaper than that? Yes, they look nice, but still...


Going to the extreme for thickness I remember practicing clarinet for a while and realizing it was helping my embouchure since it was a different use of the muscles.

I could see paying for a precise weight set, but even with that, I'm seeing mostly $10 for gram weight sets on Amazon. $20 maybe for the more elaborate one.

I'd have to think about it more, but a pencil and then short pvc tube or something for a thicker grip... some kind of attachment piece... and then the precise weights... Something like that I might pay $40 for since it's variable for using the muscles and the weight, but the PETE is one "setting" unless you want to pay $40 or whatever it is for several PETEs.

[kehaulani]

Have you not heard of "The Pencil Exercise"? (Exercise - there are plenty of sources available on the internet.)

It's free if you have a pencil. You can try it for a while and see how it works for you. If it does, you might then move on to PETE if you then want to spend the money. If not, nothing lost.
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[homebilly]

I've been thinking the same thing.

I've tried some ideas out but I'm still working on my
solution to a PETE alternative
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[Hack001]

What's the problem? It's about the same amount of metal as a mouthpiece that you'd spend between $55-400 on, it's precision machined, plated, not to mention the R&D that was involved, and it works.

Why not support a small, domestic business? $40 is worth it in my opinion, especially with the tremendous benefits it has provided me.
_________________
Practicing is for the insecure.

[chuck in ny]

it would be easy enough for someone to use a rasp and fashion one, carefully, out of wood, or a delrin rod, at minimal cost.
i got mine for $34. delivered, this in silver plate over brass, from music123 or wwbw on ebay.
otherwise, for the downtrodden, disadvantaged, and those in ordinary circumstances, i would recommend ebay and getting a deal on one. i would recommend the metal ones over the plastic one which is a couple of dollars less. the pencil is well and good, and far better musicians need nothing further, but for me the disc end of the PETE is highly effective.

[bach_again]

Do you need it? No. Absolutely not.

Can it help? Yes, absolutely. But it can destroy your chops if misused.

I know that's not what you asked, but you should buy it from terry if you want to evaluate the actual Pete.
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[ML52K]

I have a PETE and I use it. Regularly.

I do NOT use it for the "pencil exercise." At all.

A number of years ago, when I first learned of the pencil exercise, I thought, oh, how easy is that going to be. So I started short, and added time, in what I thought was a gradual manner. In a few weeks, I was approaching 2 minutes. Way too much way too soon. I started experiencing terrible JAW ache. So much so that I had to stop, and lay off the horn for awhile. It was a terrible ache, affecting not just playing, but talking and eating.

So I was skeptical trying the PETE. Eventually I got one because of the posts about it here on TH. It was advised to place between the soft, supple lips, and put a light, gentle pull on it. It exercises the "corners," and I will vouch for that. I started very short, given my experience with the pencil exercise. Because I travel over an hour for work, over lonely mountain roads, it wasn't too long that I was able to add time. Many will criticize this, but I can now do this for 10 minutes at a time. I know I could go even longer, but I mix up my "routine" with mouthpiece buzzing, so I do stages. One session on the way to work, and one session on the way home. I feel that this has helped with my sound and endurance. Range is coming along as well.

For me, I would never use it as a pencil exercise. I think the brass model I have is too heavy. For the isotonic aspect, I can't give it enough praise.

And, as noted above, it is a very high quality, polished, and plated tool, created and manufactured by one of the giants of our industry, who happens to be a hell of a nice guy too!

[Winghorn]

If you are trying to sell a gimmick, I guess it helps to make it look nice.

Of course you could make a sustitute. I will make you one from some left over junk in my garage if you really want one..

Of course being free, mine would probably not have the placebo effect of the original.

Sorry for the sarcasm, and if it works for you, great, but I hate to see we desperate trumpet players being exploited in such fashion.

Just my opinion and I wish everyone success.

Steve

[Hack001]

Exercise is not a placebo.
_________________
Practicing is for the insecure.

[Winghorn]

And it doesn't need to be "a very high quality, polished and plated tool". That's just to jack up the price.

And who cares if someone is a nice guy? What does that have to do with the effectiveness of a product?

I've got to get a life. But threads like these just make me nuts.

But, make you own choices and may success attend you.

Steve

[Winghorn]

Excercise can be a placebo when it has no inherent value in achieving the desired results.

Steve

[Hack001]

A high quality, polished, plated tool that successfully aids in the completion of a task is not a gimmick. In this case, the tool is a direct vehicle for achieving desired results, and your claims are absolutely baseless to the contrary.

If used properly, an embouchure trainer can be a fantastic device to compliment daily practice, and in other cases, like exercise or physical therapy, help heal and strengthen an injury.

In my case, I had a tear in my orbicularis oris muscle due to a diagnosed overuse injury. A section of the fibers of my oris muscle are weak due to the injury, and the PETE not only helped to heal the tear, but helps to keep my embouchure working as normal, just like physical therapy. For me, the PETE is a piece of exercise equipment like any treadmill or Bowflex, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that, if used properly, any musician without an injury could sustain the same benefit.

Playing the trumpet is a physical activity that creates stress on the body, why doesn't it make sense that properly maintaining conditioning of the muscles could result in better performance just like any other sport?

For me, the smooth edges of the PETE, along with the balance of weight that it provides and the proper size disc is the correct tool. Phil Mickelson doesn't use clubs he made in his garage or bought at Goodwill. LeBron James doesn't work out in shoes that his mom wears. Dale Earnhardt Jr. doesn't drive a Cavalier at Talladega. Professionals use good, quality equipment that works.
_________________
Practicing is for the insecure.

[chuck in ny]

i thought the PETE was a gimmick, too, as it sure looks like one, and only jumped in and got one when advised by tim wendt. now there's a hard working professional that you can't put b.s. by on.
my experience with the PETE has been increased endurance and range. it's hard to figure that it's all placebo effect. anything not in accord, or not in line, is going to be immediate mud in your face. there's a very fine line of correct practices that can allow you to advance. i don't have mud in my face and look forward with pleasurable anticipation to becoming a real player.
winghorn, if you have had a negative personal experience with the PETE, please advise us how it went.
it's worth mentioning that i still don't understand how the disc end should help endurance. it's okay as ken titmus has worked all that out for me and i can attest that it does work.

[Benge.nut]

I think back to all of the successful trumpeters that I look to as my heroes.

My favorite periods of big band players from the 50s and 60s, the studio players on all those killer records of the 70s and 80s.

Then the marvels of high note trumpeters like Maynard, Jon Faddis, Dave Stahl, Bill Chase and so on. Technical beasts like Doc, or Al Hirt, or countless others.

And none of those guys, nor any famous classical prodigies or soloists, or working musicians, nor "blue collar " trumpeters EVER used a tool like the P.E.T.E to enhance their performance. So Why would anybody today need to?

If it works for you, or even if you THINK it works for you, that's great. But I can't imagine some tool "exercising" muscles around your chops would have anymore benefit than just practicing your trumpet.

[Hack001]

"Back in MYYY day..."

Really?

Also, cross-training is a thing.
_________________
Practicing is for the insecure.

[Benge.nut]

[dstdenis]

Looking at the Warburton site, there's a page with PETE endorsements from Doc Severinsen, Jon Faddis, Wayne Bergeron, Roger Ingram, Eric Miyashiro and others. Tim Wendt has endorsed it in TH posts.
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[gchun01]

A cheap alternative that covers ONE of the two exercises recommended for the PETE is using a plastic button on a string. Be creative by using different size buttons and different kind of string (for hygiene reasons)

That being said, I bought a few PETEs and I prefer the plastic one because I don't like metal clinking against my teeth.

A few minutes of the PETE and some light mouthpiece buzzing made coming back from a layoff less traumatic.

Doc Severison used to buzz on a tuba mouthpiece after his time with Bells Palsey. Made sense to me as it was working a different part of the embouchure that couldn't be addressed buzzing a trumpet mouthpiece. And I assume it required a different kind of relaxed buzz.

[Benge.nut]

[Winghorn]

Thanks Hack001, Chuck in ny and Benge.nut.

I must concede that I have avoided the use of these "embouchure strengtheners" over the years based on advice from my teachers and upon what I have read.

The author of one trumpet method, whose success as both a performer and teacher were virtually unrivalled, called them useless.

The wife of the trombone player in my quintet plays trumpet and she just finished a several week trial of the exact product we are discussing. She found it to be of no help, and is now having trouble with air pockets and quivering in her upper lip. I certainly would not presume to say the product caused her current problems, as I have no way of knowing.

When I tried the device, I did not like the way it seemed to isolate only one set of muscles, and I did not like how my chops felt afterwards.

That is my biggest problem with the device. I does not seem to work all the muscles used in trumpet playing, and it might ultimately throw off the delicate balance between the various muscles groups necessary for good playing.

And who's to know if the muscles being exercised by the device are the ones important to trumpet playing?

With regard to the "very high quality, polished and plated" nature of the device, none of that is needed to get the benefit (if any) from it.

One does not perform with it, and a stamped piece retailing for around $5 would seemingly perform just as well.

Look, everone likes beautifully finished works of art. But is $40 for this shiny and polished "beauty" the best use of a young player's money?

As for developmental costs? You are joking, right?

But if you like how it looks, and if it works for you (for whatever reason), have at it. It's your money.

And hey, its made by one hell of a nice guy.

Steve