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djpearlman
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Joined: 30 Aug 2002
Posts: 461
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: Monette Cornette Youtube |
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Monette horns sometimes take some hits here on TH, but I can tell you that the Monette Cornette is by far the best instrument I have ever played. Here's a sample.
http://youtu.be/7IF0o3C15VU
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Dan Pearlman
Santa Fe, NM
- Monette Cornette
- Andalusia Cornet
- Carolbrass Pocket Trumpet
- Monette mouthpieces
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NafoVeXrsRm-fOhKaIpnA
Last edited by djpearlman on Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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snichols
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 586
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| If that's what their cornet sounds like, what does their flugelhorn sound like? |
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Turkle
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Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 2450
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I heard Ron Miles play his with Josh Redman last weekend at Lincoln Center. It was a truly incredible performance.
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Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| snichols wrote: | | If that's what their cornet sounds like, what does their flugelhorn sound like? |
That's what Dan sounds like on his CORNETTE. As Dave says, "Horns don't have sounds, PEOPLE DO!"
There are a lot of clips of Ron Miles playing his CORNETTE, and he sounds like himself - just as Dan sounds like himself. The real issue is that these players are inspired to connect more deeply to their inner musicality through the vehicle of these horns. Both Ron's prototype CORNETTE, as well as my instrument were also demoed by Oregon Symphony principal, Jeff Work, in several videos Monette published on the company Facebook page and YouTube. And, you can imagine what I'll say here - he sounds brilliantly like himself, but different than Ron does, and different than I do.
Now, with that out of the way - here's what a bunch of people sound like on a Monette Flugel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N3w9Pg3d3g
Best, and happy practicing!
-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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snichols
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 586
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Danbassin wrote: | | snichols wrote: | | If that's what their cornet sounds like, what does their flugelhorn sound like? |
That's what Dan sounds like on his CORNETTE. As Dave says, "Horns don't have sounds, PEOPLE DO!"
There are a lot of clips of Ron Miles playing his CORNETTE, and he sounds like himself - just as Dan sounds like himself. The real issue is that these players are inspired to connect more deeply to their inner musicality through the vehicle of these horns. Both Ron's prototype CORNETTE, as well as my instrument were also demoed by Oregon Symphony principal, Jeff Work, in several videos Monette published on the company Facebook page and YouTube. And, you can imagine what I'll say here - he sounds brilliantly like himself, but different than Ron does, and different than I do.
Now, with that out of the way - here's what a bunch of people sound like on a Monette Flugel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N3w9Pg3d3g
Best, and happy practicing!
-DB |
True, no argument about people having their own sounds, and Dan sounds fantastic. I just can't help but feel like between Monette's heaviest Raja trumpet, the cornette, the Flumpet, and the flugelhorn, that they have a lot of the same sound spectrum represented across multiple models. They all seem to cover that warm, dark, smooth sound. Granted, I suppose that's their desired sound concept, so I guess it makes sense that they feature that in a lot of their instruments. |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| snichols wrote: | | True, no argument about people having their own sounds, and Dan sounds fantastic. I just can't help but feel like between Monette's heaviest Raja trumpet, the cornette, the Flumpet, and the flugelhorn, that they have a lot of the same sound spectrum represented across multiple models. They all seem to cover that warm, dark, smooth sound. Granted, I suppose that's their desired sound concept, so I guess it makes sense that they feature that in a lot of their instruments. |
I hear what your saying, although I suspect this assessment comes from either hearing the instruments on recording exclusively, or perhaps some now-dated stereotypes about what Monettes (all Monettes) 'sound like.' And, I'm sure you're talking about the strong presence of fundamental and resonant overtone spectra across the board with Dave's basic concept of physical approach and design of acoustic instruments that are meant to project well into rooms designed for communication.
To compare a Raja trumpet (old, full-weight Rajas??), Dave's Cornets or Cornette, Flugel, and Flumpet as all sounding warm/dark/smooth doesn't really talk about the spectrum of sound, but I guess compares an impression of a very heavy, resonant trumpet and several non-trumpets with diverse but diffuse sound shapes to something like a silver Bach 37, and yes - they won't sound as small and shrill.
That out of the way --- here's some readily-available documentation of fairly recent Monette trumpets which should put the 'warm/dark/smooth' stereotype to bed:
Manny's XLT C - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjKzYhe8Snc
A Raja Eb! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8MjS5Mly1M
A RAJA MF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8hOlY3TyeQ
Monette Piccolo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABYhbJJQgSc
Wynton's new Raja P2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeiRLjk-LIY
I don't think I hear what you're talking about in these clips. As I said in a previous post on this thread, there are videos of Jeff Work demoing Ron Miles and my Cornettes which sound quite different than Dan P's post, Ron's playing, or mine. Additionally, you can find a really cool video on Monette's Facebook page where John Kim demos a Monette Cornette and the heavier 900-series Cornet back-to-back - this gives you a good comparison between the degrees of diffusion, projection, warmth, depth, darkness, brightness, and resonance that the two quite-different instrument offer.
Similarly - the various players playing Wynton's prototype Flugel in the video I posted earlier in the thread also shows just how powerfully-different individual approaches will be in finding THEIR sound through these shockingly resonant and shockingly easy-to-play (IN TUNE and Responsive) instruments.
Looking forward to hearing reactions to the above videos in this context.
Best,
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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snichols
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 586
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Danbassin wrote: | | snichols wrote: | | True, no argument about people having their own sounds, and Dan sounds fantastic. I just can't help but feel like between Monette's heaviest Raja trumpet, the cornette, the Flumpet, and the flugelhorn, that they have a lot of the same sound spectrum represented across multiple models. They all seem to cover that warm, dark, smooth sound. Granted, I suppose that's their desired sound concept, so I guess it makes sense that they feature that in a lot of their instruments. |
I hear what your saying, although I suspect this assessment comes from either hearing the instruments on recording exclusively, or perhaps some now-dated stereotypes about what Monettes (all Monettes) 'sound like.' And, I'm sure you're talking about the strong presence of fundamental and resonant overtone spectra across the board with Dave's basic concept of physical approach and design of acoustic instruments that are meant to project well into rooms designed for communication.
To compare a Raja trumpet (old, full-weight Rajas??), Dave's Cornets or Cornette, Flugel, and Flumpet as all sounding warm/dark/smooth doesn't really talk about the spectrum of sound, but I guess compares an impression of a very heavy, resonant trumpet and several non-trumpets with diverse but diffuse sound shapes to something like a silver Bach 37, and yes - they won't sound as small and shrill.
That out of the way --- here's some readily-available documentation of fairly recent Monette trumpets which should put the 'warm/dark/smooth' stereotype to bed:
Manny's XLT C - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjKzYhe8Snc
A Raja Eb! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8MjS5Mly1M
A RAJA MF - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8hOlY3TyeQ
Monette Piccolo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABYhbJJQgSc
Wynton's new Raja P2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeiRLjk-LIY
I don't think I hear what you're talking about in these clips. As I said in a previous post on this thread, there are videos of Jeff Work demoing Ron Miles and my Cornettes which sound quite different than Dan P's post, Ron's playing, or mine. Additionally, you can find a really cool video on Monette's Facebook page where John Kim demos a Monette Cornette and the heavier 900-series Cornet back-to-back - this gives you a good comparison between the degrees of diffusion, projection, warmth, depth, darkness, brightness, and resonance that the two quite-different instrument offer.
Similarly - the various players playing Wynton's prototype Flugel in the video I posted earlier in the thread also shows just how powerfully-different individual approaches will be in finding THEIR sound through these shockingly resonant and shockingly easy-to-play (IN TUNE and Responsive) instruments.
Looking forward to hearing reactions to the above videos in this context.
Best,
-DB |
I have no argument that 4/5 videos you posted are brighter, more focused (more traditional sounding, if you will). The Wynton one, btw, I'm not sure I agree on, because that sounds pretty dark and diffuse to me... As far as the other ones, I'm not surprised as those are their lighter and/or higher instruments.
I was merely commenting on what seems like a redundancy in their product line. I'm reminded of Callaway Golf 5 or 6 years ago. They had 5 models of game improvement irons on the market at one time (Razr X, Razr X Pro, Razr X HL, Razr X Black, Razr XF)... They all shared a lot of similarities and the degrees of difference were so subtle, it didn't make sense even having that many variations. I feel like it's that way with Monette's line of "diffuse/dark/heavy fundamental" (however you want to describe it) instruments. You've got the P3, P5, Raja, Ajna, and then the non-trumpet horns (flugel, flumpet, cornette). Again, it's no judgement, I just don't hear the wide diversity in those sounds that you seem to hear. If I'm listening to a Yamaha cornet, flugel, and trumpet side by side, I can pretty easily hear the difference and can see why you would carry all three models. And maybe that product lineup makes more sense for Monette sense they don't mass produce their horns and they are custom builds; it gives people more to choose from...
My experience with them is from mixed backgrounds. I've heard them in recordings, heard them in person (both up close and in concert settings), and have tried several of them. I've played the P3, Raja, flumpet, and some older lightweight model (I think they called it a Chicago). I actually quite liked the lightweight one, as it felt the most traditional to me and seemed to have the most resonance and color. The others I wasn't a big fan of. Overall, just too open, slower response, diffuse, etc.
I've actually bought a number of Monette mouthpieces over the years and continually give them a chance every so often, but they just don't work for me. Even with my Bach horns, the mouthpieces are just too open, and have too broad of a sound with not enough focus and response. I like their intonation and slotting, and I might be able to get used to the sound, but not when I'm trying to win a job and fit my sound within the mainstream classical trumpet sound concept. I always end up moving back to my traditional piece.
But again, that's just me. I know a lot of people like the sound of Monette equipment, and I have no issue with that. Maybe I'm an offender too, but I feel like there's too much "convincing" that people on both sides of the Monette topic try to do. Maybe we can all just acknowledge that they have a different goal with their equipment and some people like it while others prefer other things.
Sorry, Dan P. as I've pulled this thread way off what you intended. Again, you sound fantastic. |
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djpearlman
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Joined: 30 Aug 2002
Posts: 461
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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snichols - That's OK. Here's what I'd say to your comments: Even if the sound of the several Monette horns you mention is similar to you, the horns are anything but redundant, because whatever the sound you may hear, the horns play completely differently. Some are heavy, some light in weight and in feel. Some need a lot of air, some play with the slightest breath. Etc. I'm sure you'd agree that how a horn feels and responds to the player is right up there in importance with the sound. I've played all the Monette horns you mentioned except for the flugel, and the way each feels to play is very very different from all the others. The cornette is the first Monette horn I played (the first horn of any brand I've played, actually - in over 50 years of playing) that responded to me (and sounded) exactly as I wanted it to. That's why I bought it. I think you can probably hear in the clip I posted how intimately responsive the horn is, but even if you can't hear that specifically, I can feel it, and, as Dan Bassin pointed out, that enables me to be most directly in touch with the music inside me.
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Dan Pearlman
Santa Fe, NM
- Monette Cornette
- Andalusia Cornet
- Carolbrass Pocket Trumpet
- Monette mouthpieces
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NafoVeXrsRm-fOhKaIpnA |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| snichols wrote: | | I have no argument that 4/5 videos you posted are brighter, more focused (more traditional sounding, if you will). The Wynton one, btw, I'm not sure I agree on, because that sounds pretty dark and diffuse to me... As far as the other ones, I'm not surprised as those are their lighter and/or higher instruments. |
Were your past experiences with Prana horns, and recent-generations of the Rajas, Flumpets, etc?
Just a quick resource about Wynton's sound - that's his sound.
Here's a cool video that shows a bunch of people playing the same exact model. Shows some real range of colors based on the music we each find in it - to paraphrase DanP's comment...and sorry about the high-notes - it really is an inspiringly versatile horn:
https://www.facebook.com/monettetrumpets/videos/10153934445916260/
Best,
-DB
_________________
Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Benge.nut
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Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 695
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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The guys at Monette spend more time on attention to detail, progress and art than any trumpet maker I can think of.
I played on a few Monette trumpets and one flugelhorn. They are amazing builds, freakishly fast response, even on heavier horns, interesting feel with the ease of intonation and just a pleasure to play.
The sound however is not MY cup of tea. I enjoy others who play on them and sound great. They do have a darker more fluid sound than I prefer, but there is no doubt they are some of the best built horns on the planet.
As a blue collared trumpeter, and one who plays mostly big band and pop commercial jobs, coupled with the fact I'm the kind of guy that drinks cheap beer and eats at Outback instead of craft beers and Ruth's Chris....I doubt I'd ever own one. |
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chuck in ny
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3597
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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i couldn't link direct from the OP's post above but was able to get a listen to him playing on youtube, audio only.
it was a good sound, far too diffuse however, which was likely the point of the exercise. different strokes as they say, certainly not my cup of tea. |
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djpearlman
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Joined: 30 Aug 2002
Posts: 461
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Chuck - I fixed the link. As to your cup of tea, have you tried coffee?-- Just kidding, obviously it's a matter of varying tastes, no one can quarrel with that. Thanks for listening.
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Dan Pearlman
Santa Fe, NM
- Monette Cornette
- Andalusia Cornet
- Carolbrass Pocket Trumpet
- Monette mouthpieces
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NafoVeXrsRm-fOhKaIpnA |
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p76
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 1070
Location: The Golden City of OZ
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dan, thanks for posting that link. It's a beautiful sound no doubt.
It has been interesting to see Monette's progression through the "heavy dark" sound palette back towards something brighter, which I think has been a journey trumpet playing has taken in the last decade or two. I think the brighter sound is making a bit of a comeback, hence the perceived change to what Dave is doing.
And I agree with you Dan that even if horns have similar specs or sound palette, they can play very differently, and Monette is wise to cover the market. I'm playing for a big band show at the moment, and the trumpet section has bore sizes from .445 to .470, but we're all sounding bright and commercial - each horn clicks differently to each player.
I've only ever played one Monette, a long time ago, and I remember thinking at the time "I'm not a good enough player to get the best out of this horn." And I think that might be the point to the Monette thing - he's making high end horns for players who know what they want, and in many cases can articulate that want clearly - Dave and his crew have the smarts to turn that into brass.
Like most others, I don't have the $$$ for a Monette, and not sure I'd go there if I did, but glad that he's forging the path he is in the trumpet world.
Cheers,
Roger
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Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel |
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