Catholic Church gigs

[jmichaelhurt]

Anyone out there gig at catholic church's where you have to become an employee of the church to get paid? Did your hourly rate equal the same pay as the per service rate you were getting? The unpaid training sessions and paperwork are a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Seems like some churches require it while others don't. Am curious about your experience with this.
_________________
Bach C with Butler conversion
Various Frankenhorns
Wedge mouthpieces

Brass repair tech at Ken Stanton Music

[gjarrell]

Employment isn't required in Grand Rapids at the Cathedral. Seems like an exceptional requirement. Being Catholic isn't a requirement either. None of the musicians are EEs except the music director.
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Glenn
"When you play, make a statement. Don't ask a question." - Prof. Fielder

[Lawler Bb]

About two years ago I had to submit my information to be paid via direct deposit. Technically, I think this means that I'm an employee, but I didn't have to go through any training or be paid hourly. I only play there a few times a year, and each time I get paid in the amount I've always received (but now taxes are taken out).
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Eric Sperry
www.ericsperry.com
www.facebook.com/EricSperryTrumpet/
www.instagram.com/milwaukeetrumpet/

[Richard A]

I've played at at least four churches and have always been paid as a contractor.

If they pay you $600 or more in a year they are required to issue a Form 1099, so they may ask you to fill out a Form W9, but that's the most I've ever had to do.
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Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience.

[cheiden]

[dstdenis]

Nope. But each pastor can set rules for how his parish does things like this, or have the parish administrator do that.
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Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[Benge.nut]

If you earn more than a certain amount a year, and with frequency you pass some limit to be paid as a contractor, and have to be paid as an employee for tax reasons.

Depends on their accountants, how big a Church they are, and what if any financial troubles they may be going through.

If had to fill out 1099 forms and be paid as an employee before. Rare but not unheard of.

[Crazy Finn]

Nope.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[andybharms]

Ah, the crazy freelance things I've done...

I've had to go through payroll fairly often, and sometimes that means wait times of a month or two-- but no employee training. These days, I am lucky in that I sort of get to shy away from work that doesn't have a "check on the stand." Not that I'm in a hurry, but I've had some nightmare gigs that take 2-4 months to pay out or had to follow up a bunch, and even gotten stiffed a couple of times (a church and a state institution... nothing is sacred, it seems). I will leave that risk to others..

I remember one time I was contracted for a small fee to accompany some "church hymns"... $100 or something like that for a rehearsal and the Sunday. I picked up the music a day or two before and "church hymns" turned to to be Bach Mass in B minor. I told them to double it and they said no, so I had to walk, and then they had no concert. I just wasn't willing to do that piece without getting paid for the countless hours of practice, the expensive piccolo trumpet, all of the lessons, etc. I was so insulted by their dishonesty (or ignorance). I would encourage other trained musicians to be willing to 'walk away' from a bad deal like that. I would rather a young musician do the $10/hr barista deal and keep their expensive, highly specialized training at its highest possible dollar, than take those $30 calls... we've got to do a better job of finding monetary value in what we do...

But in either case, it definitely reflects poorly to keep their contractors waiting, and, well, they mostly get what they pay for.
_________________
Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com

[kehaulani]

I have jumped through hoops on occasion to teach, adjunctly, at Catholic churches but never as a player.

Riffing off of another comment, I am a graduate of The Catholic University and performances, especially big ones at the Basilica, are superb, and yet I can guarantee you that players are from various backgrounds and faiths, (or none).
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[jmichaelhurt]

I have played at this church many times over the last 8 years or so and it's always been the typical setup; get asked to play knowing how much it pays, play the gig, check comes to me in the mail a week or two later. Would love to have the check waiting at the last service but I'm fine with waiting a couple weeks as long as I know that going into it. I'll get the 1099 and pay the taxes and that's that.

All of a sudden they contact me about the next round of gigs and throw in that the church is changing the employment status of musicians and now I have to go to a 3 hour training session which is unpaid and meet with the employment person to go over my paperwork. I'll now be paid an hourly rate and have to fill out a time card. I'll be paid via direct deposit as well. The music director gave me a dollar amount for the hourly rate but is not 100% sure if it's accurate(yet another thing that pisses me off)

So far I haven't found anyone who has to do this for their gigs at Catholic Churches. Friends are saying it's a ploy to ultimately pay me less. I'm not sure how it's going to work out but I'm willing to see for this round and if it doesn't work out in my favor I have no problem finding another gig.
_________________
Bach C with Butler conversion
Various Frankenhorns
Wedge mouthpieces

Brass repair tech at Ken Stanton Music

[mm55]

If you're an employee, then they should be paying you for a mandatory three-hour training session. Depending on the details, it's likely a legal requirement for them to pay you.
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
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'42 Selmer US
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'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg

[trickg]

[hose]

It sounds like that church has been advised by their attorney to cover their butt in all matters with people who work in the church. i.e. if there would be a lawsuit and you're even remotely involved, they've done their job by training you in proper behavior. .....And since you're a trumpet player, all the more reason for them to be cautions.
_________________
Dave Wisner

Picketts
Yamaha 6335RC
Yamaha 8335RS
Lawler Flugel
Kanstul cornet

[mm55]

But did the attorney cover their cassocks on the subject refusing to pay employees for work required by the job?
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg

[Grits Burgh]

I presume that the church is responding to some government mandate (federal, state or local).

In my own church I have watched how some new or ambiguous government regulation or court decree drives the church to an accountant or lawyer to seek practical guidance, only to receive a recommendation that could only make sense to the numbskulls in Washington, D.C.

I'm not Catholic, but I am quite sure that the church is doing its best to appease our government overlords.

I hope that my post isn't crossing the line for religious or political comment.

Regards,
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.

[gstump]

This seems very strange. Lots of terms being used here.

-1099 is for non-employees (independent contractors)
-W-4 is filled out by employees for tax deductions
-W-2 is sent to employees by employers with year end earnings

Most employment lawyers try to avoid granting employee status in the USA.
Employees must receive employer side social security, medicare payments, unemployment insurance coverage and workers compensation insurance coverage.

Additionally, the personal policies, if not expertly written (by lawyers) could grant the promise of continued employment. So again, unless they are saving lots of money by short changing the musicians, this is very weird.

Cheers,

Gordon Stump
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Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student

[dr_trumpet]

[tomcherv]

Are they asking you to take the VIRTUS "Protecting God's Children" training?

Anyone who works or volunteers (at least in my archdiocese) is supposed to take the training. Volunteers would be unpaid, not sure about employees.

Because I'm a scout leader and have taken the Youth Protection Training, I was exempt from VIRTUS when I provided my certificate. Again - this is for our archdiocese; not sure if other archdiocese offer this.
_________________
Tom
St. Paul, MN

Benge Bb
Benge Piccolo
Buescher Flugelhorn

[kehaulani]