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JoseLindE4
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 791
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 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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So pedals are...
a. neither good nor bad, but a waste of time or at best a placebo
b. bad because they destabilize the embouchure (try asking about pedals in the Reinhardt forum)
c. a waste of time if done incorrectly: incorrectly means...?
d. bad if done incorrectly: incorrectly means...?
e. occasionally useful
f. somewhat helpful
g. the key to _______
h. not actually pedals |
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Grits Burgh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 805
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Go back and read John Mohan's post. I'm with him.
Regards,
Grits
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Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
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Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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JoseLindE4
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 791
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| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think pedals are fantastic for me when done "properly", but the Gordon approach to pedals has always been unhealthy for my playing. Blowing until empty has always promoted an overly muscular approach to my wind that isn't good for my sound and tone production. It may be a question of musical goals and career paths or it might just be differences in the ways we all use our bodies.
If it gets the results you're looking for and works for you, go with it.
My post was mostly a tongue-in-cheek summary of the consensus on pedals. |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| JoseLindE4 wrote: | I think pedals are fantastic for me when done "properly", but the Gordon approach to pedals has always been unhealthy for my playing. Blowing until empty has always promoted an overly muscular approach to my wind that isn't good for my sound and tone production. It may be a question of musical goals and career paths or it might just be differences in the ways we all use our bodies.
If it gets the results you're looking for and works for you, go with it.
My post was mostly a tongue-in-cheek summary of the consensus on pedals. |
I got your tongue in cheek humor and loved it!
I don't think it's a question of career paths or goals. The variance in playing styles of the players who've practiced the Maggio/Gordon type Pedal exercises and benefited from it ranges from Maggio himself (an Orchestral player) to Frank Kaderabek (former Principal Trumpet for the Philadelphia Orchestra) to Arturo Sandoval to Lee Loughnane (trumpet player for the band Chicago).
I can't argue with your experiences, but I don't understand how doing a particular physical exercise would cause one to use their muscles too much when playing. I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that perhaps some unwanted tension in uninvolved muscles creeped in when you were pushing the air as you ran empty and that started getting into your normal playing as well.
Cheers,
John |
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bach_again
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 2481
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | | JoseLindE4 wrote: | I think pedals are fantastic for me when done "properly", but the Gordon approach to pedals has always been unhealthy for my playing. Blowing until empty has always promoted an overly muscular approach to my wind that isn't good for my sound and tone production. It may be a question of musical goals and career paths or it might just be differences in the ways we all use our bodies.
If it gets the results you're looking for and works for you, go with it.
My post was mostly a tongue-in-cheek summary of the consensus on pedals. |
I got your tongue in cheek humor and loved it!
I don't think it's a question of career paths or goals. The variance in playing styles of the players who've practiced the Maggio/Gordon type Pedal exercises and benefited from it ranges from Maggio himself (an Orchestral player) to Frank Kaderabek (former Principal Trumpet for the Philadelphia Orchestra) to Arturo Sandoval to Lee Loughnane (trumpet player for the band Chicago).
I can't argue with your experiences, but I don't understand how doing a particular physical exercise would cause one to use their muscles too much when playing. I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that perhaps some unwanted tension in uninvolved muscles creeped in when you were pushing the air as you ran empty and that started getting into your normal playing as well.
Cheers,
John |
I have the exact same experience as Jose; Gordon ruins my mechanism but Maggio seems to really help (so far!).
Adding to your list, John, Maggio taught Uan Rasey and Rafael Mendez. I'm sure lots of others, too!!
Mike
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Josh_Harris
New Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2018
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Pedal tones are fine in moderation, however they should not be practiced more often than the upper register. I use them to warm down and relax my chops. |
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Nos Mo King
Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 438
Location: Cheyenne WY
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Double Pedals for me a la Jeff Smiley and J. Callet. Develops focus and resonance.
I still play the first pedals (as Darryl has pointed out)..BTW: here is a link to Arturo and Thomas Hooten having this discussion. Around 32:30 Arturo says that practicing pedals to play high is BS..Hooten disagrees... The whole video is a blast to watch. Arturo is taking a classical lesson from Thomas.
Best
RC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96fi8YgxUd4
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lambchop
Regular Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2017
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: pedals and CG |
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I have the exact same experience as Jose; Gordon ruins my mechanism but Maggio seems to really help (so far!).
Adding to your list, John, Maggio taught Uan Rasey and Rafael Mendez. I'm sure lots of others, too!!
Mike |
I think CG doesn't always result in embouchure correction, hence some fail on the method like I did. After reading more from Pops and others, I found I had a loose setting that resulted in using mouthpiece pressure to get compression. The pedals were very hard on me. Maybe being a returning beginner didn't help. The lip flexibilities could be played with a loose setting OK and I had good tone but no endurance due to the pressure. I would get a distinct ring on my lips. I ended up depending on a certain amount of lip swelling to play well and if I didn't practice a day or two, it would take 3 days to get back the swelling to play well. After realizing this I took a couple weeks off and tried BE. The double pedals were not taxing in any way. I think that bending notes not on the horn is hard on the lips, but double pedals are on the horn and use fairly extreme rolled out lips. Then I did the rolled in exercise and ended up firming my lips to the point I couldn't play any low notes. Now I'm carefully doing long tones softly and built back my low notes. I gave up BE for now and am doing Goldman daily exercises which are long tones with progressive lip flexibilities and tonging workouts. Sort of an abbreviated Schlossberg.
This coupled with wisper Gs as a warm up I believe is a way for me to progress to a reliable high C, before trying any other method. |
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