Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:38 am Post subject: Basic Range
I'm 15 and Ive been playing for 6 years and recently i discovered i was using bad technique (too much pressure) up to the point i realised my technique was bad i had a range up to around an D and E above the stave how ever it hadnt improved for 2 or so years (yes, i know i should have done something earlier). Ive managed to break that habit of using pressure how ever my range and stamina is significantly worse, this has been extremely frustrating. Ive been drilling arban, clarke, thibaud and arpeggios for hours every day (with proper technique) for the last month how ever im not improving at the rate i would like too. Ive tried giving myself rest days and still no improvement. I also find it really demotivating and i often end my practices angry and confused, its gotten to the point where im not finding it fun and instead of looking forward to practice i now have to force my self to do it like i did when i first started. I have many friends that play trumpet and one who is a younger has a range up to top G i asked him what he did for range and he replied "ive never thought about it." I'm also going through the invisalign treatment to fix my f****d teeth so my teeth seem to always be moving this as well has significantly worsened my range (although it wasnt meant to). I got to a music school so I have many concerts and a lot of repertoire i have to prepare for all of which require a much higher range than i currently have: around a G and A above the stave (using same pressure i do in the lower register) I hate making excuses for myself. Any ideas?
Last edited by BillBaker on Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:39 am Post subject:
You don't say how long you've been playing over all, but if you have only been playing trumpet for a month and are playing a high C you are doing something amazing. I am an older ( 80 ) comeback player who, after 1 year now, can play up to an E over high C and I have no ambitions beyond that. It took me a few months to get back that range. What I am saying here is that developing a high range takes time, and if your ambition is a double high C, then be prepared to be patient and practice smartly. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:08 am Post subject: Re: Basic Range
BillBaker wrote:
I need help improving my range.
I have a range up to around an A-C above the stave, I have been practicing range exercises everyday for 1-2 hours for about a month, Ive experimented with a different mouthpieces, I experimented with pressure and positioning. Everytime I practice range i get the "burn" in my cheeks, so i know muscle is being built however my range hasnt improved at all. Any ideas
What are "Range Exercises"?
You need to be more specific. Just because muscle is being built doesn't mean it's the right muscle. Range is not all about muscle either, it's about form and co-ordination
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Basic Range
BillBaker wrote:
I need help improving my range... Any ideas?
1. Lip slurs
2. Scales, including chromatic scales
3. Intervals
4. Arpeggios
5. Long tones (carefully, though... start in the middle range. Don't park yourself on high long tones using excessive pressure. See Marcus Printup's youtube video for pointers)
6. Patience. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Basic Range
BillBaker wrote:
I need help improving my range.
I have a range up to around an A-C above the stave, I have been practicing range exercises everyday for 1-2 hours for about a month, Ive experimented with a different mouthpieces, I experimented with pressure and positioning. Everytime I practice range i get the "burn" in my cheeks, so i know muscle is being built however my range hasnt improved at all. Any ideas
Range is primarily a technique thing. The thing most players with range deficiency do incorrectly is that they stretch the embouchure as they try to ascend instead of compressing the embouchure. The fact that your cheeks are burning tells me that you're stretching your corners instead of compressing. The high range muscles are primarily involved with the chin supporting the lower lip, not with the corners.
I suggest you get on Pops McLaughlin's website and get his materials about how the chops work. One of the things he recommends to learn compression and to build strength is the pencil exercise. Study his materials, do the pencil exercise and apply what you're learning and doing and your range should improve. _________________ HERMOKIWI
Keep it simple. Instead of thinking of high notes as targets, try to play MUSIC where your range seems to come to an end.
Arpeggios, slurs, trills are important, but playing melodies and learning to relax when trying to expand range worked for me, much more than any exercises.
This biggest thing that folks forget about is articulating. Tonguing is a much more relaxed less tension way of playing than just wide open loud notes. Multiple articulation slightly below, at, and slightly above the end of your range will build "muscle memory" and help discover the feel of new notes in your extended range.
If high C is your top note, play hundreds of repeated Bbs, Bs, Cs, then C#s etc. They'll come along quicker than just slurs, aprepggios, and wide open, loud tries at new notes.
A few things that actually produced positive change for me more recently... (I've asked on here and some people didn't seem to think all these were important, but something in this group did increase my range after years or it being stuck.)
For me, it's more recovery. Rest. Take a day off so the muscles can heal a bit.
Back off the routine when it's pushing too much, too often.
(Vary the routine, but I haven't gotten that down so much.)
Quiet tones or poo attacks (no tongue to start the note).
Goes with playing quieter -- Create a smaller aperture.
Make sure the muscles under the mouthpiece are actually working, "m" embouchure. Don't let the mouthpiece do the work, ie pinning the lips or just having too much pressure.
Less pressure. You can always play with less pressure.
Otherwise, it's just been tapping higher notes, touching note, sitting on them,
slurring a bit to them, wider slurs, etc., etc., etc. Long tones to get the note there (but not up on the edge of your range. Just touch the notes to get them started). And some slurring. By the time the notes are really useful, you won't care that you can play them. You've always been able to play them at that point.
Some other ideas....
Get good rest in general. Get good sleep.
Exercise, nutrition.
Eat plenty of protein and calories. That got kind of mocked on here, but if you're body doesn't have materials and energy to repair and build itself, it's not going to help.
Make sure you're doing all the normal things -- good embouchure, air, tongue position, etc.
Be patient. Be persistent. Make range the goal. Be intelligent and thoughtful about how you go about doing that. Listen to others' ideas but don't blindly follow them (even your teacher's. You're teacher is not you and only cares to a point. The teacher also isn't that affected if you fail.). Come up with your own ideas. Plan out your practice so you're in control.
One nice part is sometimes you can back off, take a break, take a nap, take a day off even, and make even more progress than you would have if you had tried to battle it out another day. Free progress. Sometimes that happens.
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject:
First of all, range is the most difficult to achieve. It can take a number of years to develop the skill to play above high C without jamming the horn through your face.
The key to that is the proper use of air. If you cannot control the air, you cannot control the amount of pressure.
You are going to need to see a skilled teacher who can give you the real basics of how to approach the high register by using the proper techniques.
There are some excellent teachers who give skype lessons, too.
R. Tomasek
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:56 pm Post subject:
You've received good advice in this thread so far. It's been only a week. Now you just need to keep practicing, without overdoing it and wearing yourself down. Allow yourself time to let the work produce results.
Rather than taking rest days, I suggest you practice every day, but with a less stressful approach. If you need a day off to recover, you're overdoing it.
If you've been using excessive pressure and you back off, you should expect that your range will actually get worse until your embouchure gets strong enough to play high notes without help from excess pressure.
Range isn't the only measure, or the best measure of good playing. There are other essential skills to be developed and maintained as well. Don't obsess over range and neglect the other things.
Patience and intelligent, consistent practice will win the day. Enjoy the ride! _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Another thing is when i watch other people play, their mouth for the most part seems to stay still whereas when i watch myself playing, particularly lip slurs my corners go back and forth, what does this mean?
Another thing is when i watch other people play, their mouth for the most part seems to stay still whereas when i watch myself playing, particularly lip slurs my corners go back and forth, what does this mean?
Without actually seeing you play we can't really know exactly what you mean when you say your corners go back and forth or the extent that your corners move. However, your description of what is happening is consistent with you stretching your corners as you ascend. When players use lip to lip compression to ascend the corners stay tight but don't tend to move much (if at all). _________________ HERMOKIWI
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:30 pm Post subject:
It's not unusual to see a trumpeter's lip corners flexing a bit while s/he plays. Here's a video of a very good trumpeter demonstrating a simple lip slur drill; you can see his corners flexing slightly. (BTW, good play-along exercise for lip slurs, too).
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 897 Location: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject:
Hello-
Since you have become frustrated and it is beginning to not be so fun to play lately, I would strongly suggest that you take a trumpet holiday. You're young and you've already accomplished a lot. You don't want to get yourself in a bad state of mind over your playing. Just take a break.
My advice is to take at least 5 days off. Just let your mind go in other directions for a while. No one can expect to work, work, work all the time. You will find that taking time off will help in multiple areas. In fact, take 7 days off and on the 8th day, ease back into your routine and correct the pressure issu your have been dealing with. _________________ I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.
Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet
Since you have become frustrated and it is beginning to not be so fun to play lately, I would strongly suggest that you take a trumpet holiday. You're young and you've already accomplished a lot. You don't want to get yourself in a bad state of mind over your playing. Just take a break.
I dont quite understand how this is going to be helpful to me, I am really determined to improve i havnt really taken trumpet seriously until this year, I've already wasted 5 years, and im ready to put in the hours every day, even if i have to force myself. The other thing is I play music every day at school in various ensembles and classes so this option is impossible.
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject:
BillBaker wrote:
Another thing that I really struggle with is free lip buzzing, any ideas?
Yeah, me too. Fortunately it isn't an essential skill. I wouldn't worry about that right now. We only get a limited amount of time to practice every day. Make the most of it. Focus on essential skills. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Another thing that I really struggle with is free lip buzzing, any ideas?
You know, you sound like you are truly interested in trumpet, playing mechanics and improvement. And that's great.
At your young age, with out established basic fundamentals and rudiments an Internet forum may not be the place to find these answers. Sometimes it's good to maybe reinforce an idea or discuss nuances but it sounds like you might do better having these questions answered and addressed by a private instructor.
I think it's an easy go-to answer here an often a lazy response...but you sound like you have enough inquisitive questions and desires to improve and with out seeing or hearing or working with you on a longer term basis, you're just spinning your wheels.
If you just want an Internet forum answer, I'll tell you this. Every Tom Dick and Harry here will say: "long tones, lip slurs, arpeggios" then the other school of thought guys will tell you "free buzzing, leadpipe buzzing pencil exercises and gizmos like the P.E.T.E" (it would serve you best to IGNORE all of the ladder examples at this stage of your playing)
I assume in school you have a handful of songs your are working on in band class and maybe jazz band. And you practice those songs over and over until you perform them in a concert. And you reading is probably lousy, and that's all the work you really focus on.
If you were my student you'd focus on reading... a lot. Maybe 2-3 new etudes every week for starters. And you'd be working on lots of repetitions of articulations which is what really builds muscle memory. They'd be used with incorporating all major and minor scales, at this stage, and expanding your range.
When you practice a scale, just slurring it up and down once isn't nearly enough. I'd say articulate each note from quarter, to eighth, to four 16th notes on each note of the scale. And not just play from C to C, but I'd play those exercises on every mode of the scale...dozens and dozens of times, slowly expanding your range with multiple articulation. And that's just ONE exercise.
You'll find when you practice music, lots of new music often, and are reading a lot, many of your issues you mention fix themselves.
Odds are also good you are fighting your hardware, probably somebody told you to play on a Bach 3C or 5C. Which more often than not is just too big of a mouthpiece, and not letting you develop.
But these are things a teacher can and should help and guide you with. So, my advice, and some of the best advice you'll hear is to get with a teacher, and have a disciplined routine of weekly work for your practice session beyond stuff from band class. Listen to your teacher..if things aren't working out with him, get a new teacher and listen to him. A local college professor, or an established professional player is the option I'd take...not just some one on one time with your band director
Yeh i would usually ask my teacher these questions but im currently on school holidays. He would usually give me a large range of exercises for the technical work im working on and tell me to try them all and stick with the ones that "work for me". My teacher often says that different things work for different people and i completely agree with him.
However probably my biggest flaws i have is that i often get caught up on things and end spending the whole day working on that one thing instead of working on a variety of techniques and repertoire, ive already spent 3 hours on range today and i end up wasting a lot of valuable potential practice time because im tired. Anyway i was just seeing if anyone on here had a similar experience
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