Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: What fingering do you use high G - Dub C?
What fingering do you use for all notes from high (4th ledger) G to dub C? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:43 am Post subject:
Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
Exactly!
Ab tends to work 2-3 for most people, but the high A-natural is likely the most instrument/player/mouthpiece/contextually-dependent note on the trumpet. I know some who swear by 1-3 (also for the high G), some use 3, some 2.
In response to the OP, however, use the same chromatic fingerings you use from third space C and up for high c and above --- acoustic idiosyncrasies of the horn/player/mpc might create some intonation challenges, but alternative fingerings don't replace those which match the layout of the horn.
Now, some more well-informed than I will pinpoint which frequency the trumpet technically becomes too long for the ultra high notes we're talking about. At that point, the instrument IS simply amplifying what we buzz into the mouthpiece (isn't it always!? but, seriously, the acoustic length issue is legit), so which buttons we press have less and less impact on the final product...
Happy practicing!
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:57 am Post subject:
Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
I use the normal fingerings. Unless I have my special 3rd valve slide in the horn (the one from another Benge that has the squeaker from a stuffed dog toy inserted in it). Then it's 3rd valve for everything from about G above High C to a ridiculously loud triple high C.
I think maybe 80-90% of players have a break, or a change in vibration pattern in their chops somewhere around high G-A. I think this is why so many folks have a hard time slotting Gs G#s and As with traditional fingerlings. Maybe it's a horn thing, or frequency thing, not a chop thing. But this is where the problem seems to lie.
Fortunately my break is in a different spot a little lower, and I don't have an issue around those pesky high As I hear people frustratingly trying to find. High A luckily is a great note for me.
I don't know what the answer is to cleaning up those notes in the break. For me I've tried it all, chromatic exercises, tongued and slurred , different slur patterns, different dynamic levels alternate fingerlings, moving my chop placement..everything, .but still around my high E and F I chip and skip notes at a higher percentage than anywhere else.
I'm open to any new advice, I'd love to clean up that part of my playing!!
I think maybe 80-90% of players have a break, or a change in vibration pattern in their chops somewhere around high G-A. I think this is why so many folks have a hard time slotting Gs G#s and As with traditional fingerlings. Maybe it's a horn thing, or frequency thing, not a chop thing. But this is where the problem seems to lie.
Fortunately my break is in a different spot a little lower, and I don't have an issue around those pesky high As I hear people frustratingly trying to find. High A luckily is a great note for me.
I don't know what the answer is to cleaning up those notes in the break. For me I've tried it all, chromatic exercises, tongued and slurred , different slur patterns, different dynamic levels alternate fingerlings, moving my chop placement..everything, .but still around my high E and F I chip and skip notes at a higher percentage than anywhere else.
I'm open to any new advice, I'd love to clean up that part of my playing!!
Even Maynard complained of how some of those notes slotted. His 1974 chart "Pocohontas" features himself in a duet with our friend Lynn Nicholson.
(Back when I became Lynn's fan. I had already been Maynard's fan for five years..)
According to recent chats Ive had online with Lynn himself Maynard never liked the way his high B flat slotted. You'd never know by listening to him.
Also for you guys who haven't played in front of live audiences much: You would be most surprised at how having an audience in front of you forces you to play better that you thought yourself capable.
That last poster was quite good. Yes the G# above high C is a nasty one. I had trouble with it for many years. However by practicing softly and working down into the shalowest mouthpieces Ive finally got it working more satisfactorily. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 941 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject:
Hi, I use open for the G above High C. A few years ago I had a lesson with Roger Ingram and I noticed he used 1 & 3 for the high G. I asked him about it, he said 1 & 3 slots better for him. Actually, I found years ago I could use practically any fingering up there because of how close the partials are. The different fingerings may feel a little different so it's your ear that helps. You need to hear it and feel it and figure what works best for you. I use the traditional fingerings and occasionally will use open for D above High C, 2 for F#, and 3 for A on quick passages or for tuning.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet
Hi, I use open for the G above High C. A few years ago I had a lesson with Roger Ingram and I noticed he used 1 & 3 for the high G. I asked him about it, he said 1 & 3 slots better for him. Actually, I found years ago I could use practically any fingering up there because of how close the partials are. The different fingerings may feel a little different so it's your ear that helps. You need to hear it and feel it and figure what works best for you. I use the traditional fingerings and occasionally will use open for D above High C, 2 for F#, and 3 for A on quick passages or for tuning.
Dave
I see a bunch of guys use 3 only for high A. And that note sounds awful flat for a lot of guys. It sits in tune for you?
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 941 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject:
I use A above the staff on fast passages or if the 2nd player is playing just below me and yes, it can be played in tune and it has a slightly different feel or sound. It just depends what's happening around me. I use 12 for the higher A.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet
Even Maynard complained of how some of those notes slotted.
My understanding is that those huge notes on the run up to the dub C on the opening bars of the studio recording of "Maynard Ferguson" - F G A C were actually a flub, that he intended to play it F G A Bb C as written but he overshot on the Bb and that piercing dub C came out instead - it sounded so good they left it that way. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
But he sits on the note many times with no issue like in Gonna Fly Now and the end of Mac Park. But when he needs to just play a stinger, he often over shoots it
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject:
Maynard? Overshoot a note? Never! Lol
I'm amazed at how differently my various horns not only slot above high C, but how much the best fingering for intonation varies as well. A is not a squirrelly note for me at all; never has been, on any horn. I think a lot of that is mental approach and/or determination. Now if I could only get that Bb dialed in! DHC is far easier for me
G open or 1&3 for a bit more hair on the note
Ab 1 or 2&3
A 1&2 or 3 for hair
Bb 1
B 2 or 1&3
C just the pinky
Typically if I have a break point up there it's indicative of an imbalance in the playing mechanism typically caused by overblowing or playing too loud. Once readdressed the fingering from the octave below typically works great.
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:07 am Post subject: Re: What fingering do you use high G - Dub C?
Robert P wrote:
What fingering do you use for all notes from high (4th ledger) G to dub C?
********** Fing.*******Alt.
-----------------------------------------
C (DHC)------ 0---------23---- 1------13
B---------------2---------12-----123--- 13----3
A#-------------1--------- 0----- 23----123
A-------------- 12-------- 2------13----- 3---- 0
G#------------ 23-------- 1------123----2
G---------------0---------13-----12------3
F#--------------2---------23-----123
========================
F----------------1---------13
E----------------0---------12-----123----3
D#------------- 2---------23
D----------------0---------1-----13
C#--------------2--------12-----123----3
C (High C)-----0---------23-----1 _________________ Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:13 pm Post subject:
falado wrote:
Hi, I use open for the G above High C. A few years ago I had a lesson with Roger Ingram and I noticed he used 1 & 3 for the high G. I asked him about it, he said 1 & 3 slots better for him. Actually, I found years ago I could use practically any fingering up there because of how close the partials are. The different fingerings may feel a little different so it's your ear that helps. You need to hear it and feel it and figure what works best for you. I use the traditional fingerings and occasionally will use open for D above High C, 2 for F#, and 3 for A on quick passages or for tuning.
Dave
That sounds about right.
I like open for the G most of the time, but depending on where the pitch center of the band is, sometimes 13 feels firmer. 1 for Ab, 2 for A, and just about anything above that. One time (about 10 years ago when I was playing a lot of that range), I played G to GG without using valves. It was sloppy, but at the time and place that worked better than being tidy. But I rarely top an A any more.
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