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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:53 am Post subject: Programme for scanning music into MuseScore2 on Windows 10 |
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Hi
I have Windows 10 on my laptop, and use MuseScore2 as my music software.
I often use it to split solo cornet parts that have 3 or even 4 parts on the stave, into separate parts. However rather than input the score manually, I am wondering whether there are any programmes available that via the use of a scanner, would allow me to scan the original directly into MuseScore 2, so that I can edit it rather than input it from scratch.
Many Thanks
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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jimspeedjae Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 165
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:43 am Post subject: |
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You can scan in music with Finale and there is (at least in my older version) a feature to "explode music" as after scanning the parts will most likely be in the same layer.
http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2014Win/Content/Finale/MMEXPDLG.htm
However, I'm not going to say that you'll have great results.
Expect a fair amount of verification of the scan and there is a more than reasonable chance that the result from "exploding" the music is not going to be exactly what you were expecting, without preparationg of the original part, so further editing again may be required.
In my experience I found getting very profficient at keyboard entry allowed me to enter music accurately, and in the long run it was less time consuming than all the quality control and editing still required from scanning parts.
Then again, I haven't used the latest version or two, or done much arranging work for a while - and the technology may have improved.
James |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:53 am Post subject: |
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There used to be a way (might still be one) to do this by submitting a PDF file to the musescore website. I haven't tried it in quite a while though. It wasn't very good last I checked, but that was probably a year ago back or more.
There are also some commercial products to convert scanned sheet music into MusicXML that I have heard about from other people but haven't tried any of them myself. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:20 am Post subject: |
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jimspeedjae wrote: | You can scan in music with Finale and there is (at least in my older version) a feature to "explode music" as after scanning the parts will most likely be in the same layer.
http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2014Win/Content/Finale/MMEXPDLG.htm
However, I'm not going to say that you'll have great results.
Expect a fair amount of verification of the scan and there is a more than reasonable chance that the result from "exploding" the music is not going to be exactly what you were expecting, without preparationg of the original part, so further editing again may be required.
In my experience I found getting very profficient at keyboard entry allowed me to enter music accurately, and in the long run it was less time consuming than all the quality control and editing still required from scanning parts.
Then again, I haven't used the latest version or two, or done much arranging work for a while - and the technology may have improved.
James |
Hi James
Thank you very much.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:21 am Post subject: |
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RandyTX wrote: | There used to be a way (might still be one) to do this by submitting a PDF file to the musescore website. I haven't tried it in quite a while though. It wasn't very good last I checked, but that was probably a year ago back or more.
There are also some commercial products to convert scanned sheet music into MusicXML that I have heard about from other people but haven't tried any of them myself. |
Hi RandyTX
Thank you very much.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: |
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I've used Finale products for many years and only tried a few times to scan music with unimpressive results. So I've basically given up. Only recently a friend told me she was having much better results with scanning into Finale so I may have to try again. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | I've used Finale products for many years and only tried a few times to scan music with unimpressive results. So I've basically given up. Only recently a friend told me she was having much better results with scanning into Finale so I may have to try again. |
Hi cheiden
Thank you very much.
Best wishes
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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jimspeedjae Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 165
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Lou - if you want, PM me a pdf of your part...I'm sort of intrigued to see how it comes out by default in Finale. |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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jimspeedjae wrote: | Lou - if you want, PM me a pdf of your part...I'm sort of intrigued to see how it comes out by default in Finale. |
Hi
I'm very sorry, but I missed this reply. I've never photocopied a part and converted it into a pdf, but I'll have a go and see whether I can do this.
Thanks very much.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Louise Finch wrote: | jimspeedjae wrote: | Lou - if you want, PM me a pdf of your part...I'm sort of intrigued to see how it comes out by default in Finale. |
Hi
I'm very sorry, but I missed this reply. I've never photocopied a part and converted it into a pdf, but I'll have a go and see whether I can do this.
Thanks very much.
Take care
Lou |
If you provide a clean image Jim should be able to scan it. If you the scan it into a TIFF or PDF format then it's entirely possible the music recognizing software would be able to read it. PDF recognition wasn't available when I did this last. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:00 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: |
If you provide a clean image Jim should be able to scan it. If you the scan it into a TIFF or PDF format then it's entirely possible the music recognizing software would be able to read it. PDF recognition wasn't available when I did this last. |
Hi cheiden
Thanks very much. I've emailed James a pdf of the part, and will be very interested to hear how whether it will import into finale. Importing it into MuseScore 2 was unsuccessful. I haven't yet successfully imported any sheet music pdfs into Musescore2.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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jimspeedjae Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 165
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Well, how to be completely unsuccessful...
So I thought I'd treat myself as part of this exercise and upgrade my version of finale from 2014...after all, the technology must have improved right?
Except maybe not.
https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/FinaleWin/Content/Finale/Scanning.htm?Highlight=scan
That's right. No scanning at all in the latest version of Finale and we'll have to wait until the SmartMusic option is available to subscribers by the looks of it. And that's not a product or service I have ever used.
So, sorry Lou...it's a fail from me!
Any Sibelius users out there? |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:47 am Post subject: |
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jimspeedjae wrote: | Well, how to be completely unsuccessful...
Hi James
So I thought I'd treat myself as part of this exercise and upgrade my version of finale from 2014...after all, the technology must have improved right?
Except maybe not.
https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/FinaleWin/Content/Finale/Scanning.htm?Highlight=scan
That's right. No scanning at all in the latest version of Finale and we'll have to wait until the SmartMusic option is available to subscribers by the looks of it. And that's not a product or service I have ever used.
So, sorry Lou...it's a fail from me!
Please don't apologise, I just really hope that I haven't inadvertently cost you money. If so, I'm extremely sorry.
When I tried it in MuseScore 2, I got the following:
Converted files
Filename
Uploaded
Result
Pines of Rome.pdf
2 hours ago
Unsuccessful
The Merry Wives of Windsor (Nicolai, Otto) - IMSLP_Petrucci Music Library_ Free Public Domain Sheet Music.pdf
2 hours ago
Unsuccessful
l
This is a free experimental service, that attempts to help you out to convert your PDF sheet music to a .mcsz file. It is powered by the open source Audiveris software. The digital score is meant to be opened in our MuseScore notation tool, so you can edit it further.
How it works
Quick tip: Best results are obtained with gray level images and a resolution around 300 DPI.
Your PDF files will be queued during the conversion process.
You will be notified via email when the conversion yields some result, good or bad.
After processing, you can download your converted PDF files on this page.
Incompatible PDF's
Please don’t try to convert the same PDF file twice. If it doesn’t work, your PDF file isn’t compatible to the converter. This could be due to various reasons such as the quality of the pdf, the complexity of the score or various other reasons. Feel free to try with another pdf file!
It was therefore a fail from me too.
Any Sibelius users out there?
My husband uses Sibelius. I'll ask him to have a go.
Take care
Lou |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Back to top |
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jimspeedjae Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 165
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Cost a few $$ for the upgrade, but don't worry about it...I'd planned on doing some arrangements in the near future, so I'd be upgrading anyway.
And I'd only have wasted it otherwise buying another something or other....oh wait, 3 mutes from Trumcor and MuteMeister on the way...old beat up Maestro cornet turned up yesterday. Courtois Evo III last week. There's always something |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:50 am Post subject: |
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jimspeedjae wrote: | Cost a few $$ for the upgrade, but don't worry about it...I'd planned on doing some arrangements in the near future, so I'd be upgrading anyway.
Hi James
Thank you very much.
And I'd only have wasted it otherwise buying another something or other....oh wait, 3 mutes from Trumcor and MuteMeister on the way...old beat up Maestro cornet turned up yesterday. Courtois Evo III last week. There's always something
Very true.
I like the Maestro cornet, and wish that I hadn't sold mine years ago.
Take care
Lou
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_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Back to top |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:03 am Post subject: |
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jimspeedjae wrote: | Well, how to be completely unsuccessful...
So I thought I'd treat myself as part of this exercise and upgrade my version of finale from 2014...after all, the technology must have improved right?
Except maybe not.
https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/FinaleWin/Content/Finale/Scanning.htm?Highlight=scan
That's right. No scanning at all in the latest version of Finale and we'll have to wait until the SmartMusic option is available to subscribers by the looks of it. And that's not a product or service I have ever used.
So, sorry Lou...it's a fail from me!
Any Sibelius users out there? |
Louise, I don't have the very latest version of Finale. I'll check tonight to see if my version still includes the music recognition feature. But I'm pretty sure that I have a version of Finale or PrintMusic that does. I'll try to import the same IMSLP file mentioned in your previous post.
And FWIW, if the problem was solely with the PDF format, one workaround might be to laser print the PDF and scan it into a different format (TIFF). To my understanding, that typically works better. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:15 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: |
Louise, I don't have the very latest version of Finale. I'll check tonight to see if my version still includes the music recognition feature.
Hi cheiden
Thanks very much, that would be really appreciated.
But I'm pretty sure that I have a version of Finale or PrintMusic that does. I'll try to import the same IMSLP file mentioned in your previous post.
That again would be really appreciated.
And FWIW, if the problem was solely with the PDF format, one workaround might be to laser print the PDF and scan it into a different format (TIFF). To my understanding, that typically works better.
I'll have to look into this, as I am not familiar with the different formats and have never heard of TIFF.
Regarding MuseScore 2, although admittedly I haven't yet managed to get it to work, it only has a feature for inputting from a pdf, so I think that it would have to be a pdf.
My husband has Sibelius First 8.5.1. This has no direct feature to input a pdf. He previously had Sibelius 6, and still has an associated programme Photo Score Light 6. We have managed to input this pdf into Photo Score Light 6, although it needs so much editing owing in particular to the double staves in places, I reckon that inputting from scratch would be easier.
I don't however think that Photo Score Light 6 is compatible with Sibelius First 8.5.1.
All the best
Lou
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_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Back to top |
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Kimberly Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2011 Posts: 128 Location: Hillside, IL
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Louise Finch wrote: |
... We have managed to input this pdf into Photo Score Light 6, although it needs so much editing owing in particular to the double staves in places, I reckon that inputting from scratch would be easier.
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Louise, that was my experience the last time I tried scanning something into Finale a year or so ago. The result ended up requiring so much correction editing that it would be easier inputting from scratch and what I got from samples with more than one staff was useless.
The best results I got (~90%) was with a single staff, first generation PDF produced by Finale - but of course if one could produce a PDF from Finale ... ;~)
Kimberly |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5461 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Kimberly wrote: | Louise Finch wrote: |
... We have managed to input this pdf into Photo Score Light 6, although it needs so much editing owing in particular to the double staves in places, I reckon that inputting from scratch would be easier.
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Louise, that was my experience the last time I tried scanning something into Finale a year or so ago. The result ended up requiring so much correction editing that it would be easier inputting from scratch and what I got from samples with more than one staff was useless.
The best results I got (~90%) was with a single staff, first generation PDF produced by Finale - but of course if one could produce a PDF from Finale ... ;~)
Kimberly |
Hi Kimberely
Thank you very much. it looks like I would be better continuing to enter music from scratch.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Back to top |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Louise Finch wrote: | cheiden wrote: |
Louise, I don't have the very latest version of Finale. I'll check tonight to see if my version still includes the music recognition feature.
Hi cheiden
Thanks very much, that would be really appreciated.
But I'm pretty sure that I have a version of Finale or PrintMusic that does. I'll try to import the same IMSLP file mentioned in your previous post.
That again would be really appreciated.
And FWIW, if the problem was solely with the PDF format, one workaround might be to laser print the PDF and scan it into a different format (TIFF). To my understanding, that typically works better.
I'll have to look into this, as I am not familiar with the different formats and have never heard of TIFF.
Regarding MuseScore 2, although admittedly I haven't yet managed to get it to work, it only has a feature for inputting from a pdf, so I think that it would have to be a pdf.
My husband has Sibelius First 8.5.1. This has no direct feature to input a pdf. He previously had Sibelius 6, and still has an associated programme Photo Score Light 6. We have managed to input this pdf into Photo Score Light 6, although it needs so much editing owing in particular to the double staves in places, I reckon that inputting from scratch would be easier.
I don't however think that Photo Score Light 6 is compatible with Sibelius First 8.5.1.
All the best
Lou
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I downloaded the only trumpet/cornet part I could find for The Merry Wives of Windsor. I then printed it out and scanned it into the Finale 2014's included version of SmartScore Lite. It imported but was full of errors. To be fair the part I scanned is not trivial with lots of cue notes that always trip up the recognition software. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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