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Dashtrpt New Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2016 Posts: 4
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: Quality flugelhorn? |
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Hi all, what's considered a good brand these days? I've tried a Yamaha which I like a lot. Must have 1st and 3rd triggers. Thanks! |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Quality flugelhorn? |
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Dashtrpt wrote: | Hi all, what's considered a good brand these days? I've tried a Yamaha which I like a lot. Must have 1st and 3rd triggers. Thanks! |
A good pro level flugelhorn will not need a 1st valve trigger. If the flugelhorn needs a 1st valve trigger, the design is not up to professional quality by today's standards.
Along with Yamaha, consider:
Kanstul
Flip Oakes
Scodwell
Burbank
Adams
Hub Van Laar
Inderbinen
Eclipse
Taylor
Calliccio
Jupiter (certain models)
Vintage 1 _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Are you wanting a new horn, or looking at used and vintage as well? |
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jharris2 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 168 Location: Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Quality flugelhorn? |
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shofarguy wrote: | Dashtrpt wrote: | Hi all, what's considered a good brand these days? I've tried a Yamaha which I like a lot. Must have 1st and 3rd triggers. Thanks! |
A good pro level flugelhorn will not need a 1st valve trigger. If the flugelhorn needs a 1st valve trigger, the design is not up to professional quality by today's standards.
Along with Yamaha, consider:
Kanstul
Flip Oakes
Scodwell
Burbank
Adams
Hub Van Laar
Inderbinen
Eclipse
Taylor
Calliccio
Jupiter (certain models)
Vintage 1 |
I would add Getzen to this list. _________________ John
2014 Flip Oakes Wild Thing flugelhorn (copper bell)
2014 Flip Oakes Celebration trumpet
2005 Flip Oakes Wild Thing trumpet
2002 Flip Oakes Wild Thing short cornet
1976 Getzen Eterna Severinsen trumpet
1951 Olds Ambassador cornet |
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tptguy Jerome Callet Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3380 Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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First batch of the new Jerome Callet flugelhorn, the Grand Prix, should be available in about 10 days. Jerry's original large bore design is still highly regarded, especially in big bands. But this new .415 model is extra efficient and responsive with an even smoother, richer sound. Check them out at ITG. |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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The Getzen Custom Reserve flügel is fantastic!
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you are lucky enough to found a Lawler grab it....
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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1jazzyalex Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jun 2016 Posts: 569 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:00 am Post subject: |
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It seems these days that at least some high school band teachers are insisting on a first valve trigger/saddle and these kids are playing pretty young ... so a Yamaha student model may be a great horn but also have the "unnecessary" 1st valve dealio... _________________ Yamaha 8335LA with Blessing 3C, 5C, Schilke 11A4A |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I have a Courtois 155R flugelhorn, which has triggers on the 1st and 3rd valve slides. I thought I would need the 1st valve trigger, since I use first valve slide adjustments on my other instruments. However, I found I never need it on this flugel. (I do need the 3rd valve trigger, though.) The Courtois 154 flugel is essentially the same as the 155, but without the 1st valve trigger. I would recommend Courtois flugelhorns if you want a deep, dark, mellow sound with lots of presence. I got the rose brass bell; the yellow brass bell is not as dark but still has a rich, mellow sound.
I'd also recommend the Kanstul flugelhorns, which have a nice balanced sound, and the Yamahas, which have a beautiful clear sound.
But wait, don't we always want the darkest, most mellow flugelhorn possible? Maybe not. You might love it during the play test but wish you had something more balanced when you're out playing it with others. (BTW, even though it's rather dark and mellow, I've been happy with my Courtois. It's sound is clear enough to work where I've played it. But I did switch from a really deep mouthpiece to a medium deep mouthpiece for a clearer sound and ease of play.)
I've heard videos of the Conn Vintage 1 flugelhorn, and I think it sounds great. I haven't had the chance to play test one, but I'd keep it on my list if I were shopping.
The Adams flugelhorns sound nice also. There are quite a few models and options to go through. Trent Austin sells them at Austin Custom Brass.
Tony Scodwell posted a very informative video about his Scodwell flugelhorn. No matter what you end up with, I think you owe it to yourself to check out that video. I'd keep that instrument on your shopping list if I were you.
ETA: I forgot to mention the Stomvi Titan flugel. Jim Rotondi plays one on his Dark Blue album. Beautiful playing with a nice clear, balanced sound. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Last edited by dstdenis on Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:24 am Post subject: |
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While I think differing bore size on trumpets are not a super big deal, the difference between .460-.468 for instance is easy for me to adjust.
But on flugelhorns, I think bore is a more important factor. I and most players I think, prefer the smaller bore size. I've seen flugels range from .410-.460 (maybe .470?? I forget the Callet Jazz specs) and the small bores have the light "fluffy" sound I'm looking for.
Some guys like the larger bore flugs, like the older Getzen and Benge from the 70s, but I think they sound tubby and more like an alto trombone than a flugelhorn. But you'll find diehards on both sides of the argument.
All that said, for modern flugelhorns I think Kanstul and Yamaha variations will be the most popular at least in the US. I don't like super dark sounding horns, so I'd lean towards yellow brass Yamaha Z horns (whatever the current model is) and the Besson and Couesnon copies Kanstul makes the 925 and 1025 are the current models I think.
I've played some Adams flugels recently that are just awesome horns. I like the Bach Strad flug, although many don't (I don't know why that is)
Going vintage and used is a way to go. Of course everybody loves a good used Couesnon from the 60s-70s or a French Besson...but it's a crap shoot and hit and miss finding one with out tons of issues and problems.
Trigger please.......
I wouldn't worry about a first valve slide trigger. I can't think of anybody that even builds a horn w a first valve trigger. Most have third valve triggers and that seems to be enough to fix any issues. I wouldn't keep that variable in my equation when buying a flugelhorn |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Benge.nut wrote: | While I think differing bore size on trumpets are not a super big deal, the difference between .460-.468 for instance is easy for me to adjust.
But on flugelhorns, I think bore is a more important factor. I and most players I think, prefer the smaller bore size. I've seen flugels range from .410-.460 (maybe .470?? I forget the Callet Jazz specs) and the small bores have the light "fluffy" sound I'm looking for.
Some guys like the larger bore flugs, like the older Getzen and Benge from the 70s, but I think they sound tubby and more like an alto trombone than a flugelhorn. But you'll find diehards on both sides of the argument.
All that said, for modern flugelhorns I think Kanstul and Yamaha variations will be the most popular at least in the US. I don't like super dark sounding horns, so I'd lean towards yellow brass Yamaha Z horns (whatever the current model is) and the Besson and Couesnon copies Kanstul makes the 925 and 1025 are the current models I think.
I've played some Adams flugels recently that are just awesome horns. I like the Bach Strad flug, although many don't (I don't know why that is)
Going vintage and used is a way to go. Of course everybody loves a good used Couesnon from the 60s-70s or a French Besson...but it's a crap shoot and hit and miss finding one with out tons of issues and problems.
Trigger please.......
I wouldn't worry about a first valve slide trigger. I can't think of anybody that even builds a horn w a first valve trigger. Most have third valve triggers and that seems to be enough to fix any issues. I wouldn't keep that variable in my equation when buying a flugelhorn |
I think that this pretty well sums it all up. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2415 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Benge.nut wrote: | I wouldn't worry about a first valve slide trigger. I can't think of anybody that even builds a horn w a first valve trigger. Most have third valve triggers and that seems to be enough to fix any issues. I wouldn't keep that variable in my equation when buying a flugelhorn |
There are a couple. The Curtois AC155 has 1st and 3rd valve triggers. King 2020 also has 1st and 3rd valve triggers. But I agree that they are not common, and probably not considered a must-have.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Quality flugelhorn? |
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shofarguy wrote: | Dashtrpt wrote: | Hi all, what's considered a good brand these days? I've tried a Yamaha which I like a lot. Must have 1st and 3rd triggers. Thanks! |
A good pro level flugelhorn will not need a 1st valve trigger. If the flugelhorn needs a 1st valve trigger, the design is not up to professional quality by today's standards.
Along with Yamaha, consider:
Kanstul
Flip Oakes
Scodwell
Burbank
Adams
Hub Van Laar
Inderbinen
Eclipse
Taylor
Calliccio
Jupiter (certain models)
Vintage 1 |
If you realy need a first slide trigger a cheaper but realy good flugel is the Getzen Capri model , it comes with first valve trigger and third valve ring and it has a trumpet value block and is very easy to go from trumpet to flugel, with a good mpc you can get a great flugel sound.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the others who say that typically a flugel doesn't need a 1st valve trigger. Due to the nature of how a flugel blows, a small adjustment of the 1st slide - sort of a "set it and forget it" kind of thing - gets you close enough where you won't need to trigger it and you'll be close enough that your ear takes care of the rest. I do like having the 3rd slide trigger though.
A safe bet on a flugel is a Yamaha 631G. For me, it's the horn I compare everything else to when assessing a flugel.
I had a lacquered Kanstul 925 for a number of years that I loved. I sold it because at the time I wasn't using it, and I wanted cash for another project. I've kicked myself ever since.
There's a silver plated one on the marketplace now at a very reasonable price. If it was lacquer, I'd be taking a hard look at it. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
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trickg wrote: |
I had a lacquered Kanstul 925 for a number of years that I loved. I sold it because at the time I wasn't using it, and I wanted cash for another project. I've kicked myself ever since.
There's a silver plated one on the marketplace now at a very reasonable price. If it was lacquer, I'd be taking a hard look at it. |
You know for decades I thought my flugels needed to be lacquer. I think, I thought lacquer was definitely a darker sound. I don't know if it was a visual thing or what.
But my current and last fluegelhorns are silver plate and I LOVE playing them. The sound is still dark, but the response is faster and I like the way it records.
If I were in the market and wanted a used flug at a more than fair price, I'd scoop up that Kanstul in the market place!! |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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The overtone series is primarily dictated by the bell flare, and the player, not the finish. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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Benge.nut Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Posts: 695
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Don Herman rev2 wrote: | The overtone series is primarily dictated by the bell flare, and the player, not the finish. |
Yeah...I figured the sound and finish concerns were in my unquiet mind, not coming out of my horn.
Silver is easier to care for as well. I seem to have high acid contents in my sweat I guess, because I seem to eat through lacquer pretty easy. But silver plate doesn't seem effected.
Like I said that Kanstul in the market place in silver plate should be a good buy for somebody!! |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1924 Location: WI
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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tptguy wrote: | First batch of the new Jerome Callet flugelhorn, the Grand Prix, should be available in about 10 days. Jerry's original large bore design is still highly regarded, especially in big bands. But this new .415 model is extra efficient and responsive with an even smoother, richer sound. Check them out at ITG. |
tptguy, do you know if the Grand Prix has the same unique valve slide configuration as the large bore design? |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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trickg wrote: | I had a lacquered Kanstul 925 for a number of years that I loved. I sold it because at the time I wasn't using it, and I wanted cash for another project. I've kicked myself ever since.
There's a silver plated one on the marketplace now at a very reasonable price. If it was lacquer, I'd be taking a hard look at it. |
Benge.nut wrote: | You know for decades I thought my flugels needed to be lacquer. I think, I thought lacquer was definitely a darker sound. I don't know if it was a visual thing or what.
But my current and last fluegelhorns are silver plate and I LOVE playing them. The sound is still dark, but the response is faster and I like the way it records. |
Don Herman rev2 wrote: | The overtone series is primarily dictated by the bell flare, and the player, not the finish. |
Yeah. I have a Yamaha 731 - which is silver. If you think that silver is too shiny for a flugel - visually, then just leave it out and don't polish it. It'll look like something that could be at an antique store or on the wall at Applebees (insert local/chain bar/restaurant here) in no time - mine certainly does. Plays nice, though. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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HornnOOb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 897 Location: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Kanstul 925 Custom Classic with a deep MP makes the classic flugel sound. I'm selling mine if you're interested. _________________ I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.
Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet
Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C |
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