I Need a Reality Check - Range and Endurance

[ajwan]

Hi all,

I'm in need of a reality check.

I'm a come back player after 22 years in hiatus. Originally a French horn player in highschool (but always a closet cornet player), I've switched to the Bb cornet and I've been practicing daily for a minimum of 30 mins everyday since the first week of January of this year (cant play more than that as I have a day job and a home life). So effectively my embouchure is only 4 months old.

So far my effective range is consistently to the B above the treble staff (with decent tone and control). Problem is my endurance. For example, after a decent warm up, I can play the second movement of Haydn's Trumpet Concerto (Eb) (with two runs to a Bb above the staff) maybe twice on a good day and that's it! Mind you, there are breaks in the song to rest briefly.

I'm a bit frustrated that my endurance in the upper parts of my current range is short. My goal is to be able to play a song with no breaks. For example, two verses of the Christmas song "O Holy Night" (which has no rests), and have enough in the tank for a decent pause on the Bb above the staff at the end of the song. No fancy runs or variations, just as it is and focusing on intonation/quality.

How am I doing after 4 months? Am I being impatient and too hard on myself? Can I do better? How long until I reach my immediate goal given my current practice regimen (5 mins warm ups, melodies 15 mins, range exercises 10 mins)? Am I being realistic?

I'd greatly appreciate some opinions on this.

Cheers,
Andrew
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Besson Sovereign BE928 (Germany)

[Robert P]

The universal suggestion is always to take lessons from a good teacher. For best feedback here, I suggest posting video of yourself playing a song. Without seeing and hearing you, there's no way to make a meaningful evaluation of what you're doing. Go ahead and post video of you playing O Holy Night.
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[ajwan]

[Benge.nut]

People always say the same thing while giving advice. Lip flexibility, slurs, arpeggios, long tones....then you hear mouthpiece buzzing ,long tones (yawn) then more fringe guys get into leadpipe buzzing, pencil exercises, P.E.T.E

But nobody talks about articulating. Lots of rapid articulations slightly below and above the end of your range.

If a high B is it, try playing 50-75 Gs, G#s, As, Bbs, Bs and Cs ...then up those numbers to maybe 100-150

Try doing repeated 16th notes in chromatics around those same areas. The more you play those notes, the more you develop the muscle memory...not strength...to remember HOW to play those new notes.

Play simple melodies around the end of your range (and everywhere else) but TONGUE the notes. Don't just slur or sit on the notes. Lots and lots and lots of repetitions.

When you are articulating notes, you'll realize you aren't breathing as much as you thought you needed too and won't be wasting energy, and you'll be teaching yourself to relax more and not overblow.

Once you can tongue and really own those notes and know where they sit and feel, sustaining them is much easier.

If you get bored incorporate scales you are not as strong with, or melodies, or work on transposing while using articulation exercises.

It's what worked for me, and I've seen work for others. Try everything, take the good and leave the rest....but everybody seems to overlook the importance of articulating to build and increase range and endurance

The end

[Robert P]

[ajwan]

[Trumpetingbynurture]

[Trumpetingbynurture]

[ajwan]

[GeorgeB]

I came back last spring after a 50+ year hiatus. I over did everything in the first 2 or 3 months but got some pretty good advice and after I cut back on the excessive time ( 2 hours ) I was devoting to the technical stuff, learned relaxed breathing, soft playing, and playing tunes within the staff. Now a year and a bit later things are going well for me and I have been playing with a community band since last fall, and play music regularly with some notes at A above the staff ( my comfort range, though I play a high C daily ). I am 80 and realize I will never have the endurance I had in my teens and twenties, so I make sure I get lots of rest time during my practice sessions. You've been given some good advice here so the only thing I would add is to think positive, take things slow and easy and don't expect too much the first few months. And whatever you do, forget how good a player you may have been in your youth and approach things as if you are learning to play for the first time.
Good luck.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

[Benge.nut]

[razeontherock]

While you won't get as much development with only a half hour to practice as someone who can put in multiple short sessions, Pops wrote some books specific to your situation. Look for them in our market place, I think I saw Chops Builder recently. You'll have to really practice smart!

[ajwan]

All good replies! I'll consider all these and might decide to check in with my kid's teacher!

Cheers,
Andrew
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Besson Sovereign BE928 (Germany)

[Benge.nut]

Get that tongue happening!!!

😛😝😜👅

[John Mohan]

Hi Andrew,

Yes, you are being impatient and too hard on yourself. Your goal is one that will take at least a year and perhaps longer to develop, not four months.

Stick with it.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student

[ajwan]

[trickg]

There are some....interesting comments in this thread. I'm going to echo what John Mohan said - yes, you are being too hard on yourself and it's going to take some time to develop to a place where your range and endurance are better.

I'm also going to go against the grain and tell you that a teacher is not absolutely necessary, provided you don't have some fundamental chops problems that need to be fixed. Since you say you can play a B above the staff with good sound and control and you are only 4 months into a comeback, that indicates to me that your embouchure is pretty normal.

I'm also going to touch on another thought - in general I think comebackers are WAY too hard on themselves, and that they often push themselves too hard, too fast, and might have some unrealistic expectations.

Stop for a second and think back to your formative years on a brass instrument. How long had you been at it before you reached a level where you were able to actually play something outside of normal graded (2/3) school material and have it sound polished? I really didn't get to that point until I was an 11th grader, and by then I was in my 7th year of playing and chops development. You've been back 4 months and you are doing the 2nd movement of the Haydn - something I didn't initially play and perform until 12th grade.

So, like John says, stick with it - your chops will develop, both in strength and focus, but it's going to take time, practice and patience.

On a side note, taking lessons could definitely be beneficial, but not absolutely necessary - at the end of the day, you're the one who is going to put in the time and work, but a teacher can help streamline things and make you aware of things you might be doing that you are not able to discern yourself.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Lionel]

Introducing logic into the analysis we might ask the o/p which mouthpiece he uses?

The ability to have good endurance in the upper register is conditional, at least in part to how much effort is required to play the upper register to begin with. When the mouthpiece is overly large, deep, and has sharp edges, particularly the inner rim "bite"?

It's usually just asking for trouble. Much of the benefits in tone production which trumpet players typically seek in larger pieces can be obtained on medium and even shallow pieces. Just so long as the back bore and even second cup can be altered..

Thus? There's just no need to kill yourself guys! There are enough martyrs playing trumpet as it is. You'll note those using the described large, sharp edged pieces by the following characteristics,

Most notable and permanent ring on upper lip. Even days after playing the trumpet.
Plays 3rd cornet parts almost exclusively.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[lakejw]

I think your original post sounds pretty good for 4 months. Endurance and range are limiting factors for all trumpet players, professionals included. Range is a tricky subject, but the easiest and best ways I've found for increasing endurance are:

1) Play in more frequent but shorter practice sessions. If you can practice 1-2 hours spread throughout the day in 20 minute chunks, you will accomplish a lot more than the same amount of time all in one stretch. Maintaining fresh, responsive chops is a key component of efficiency.

2) Don't kill yourself with the fundamentals. Playing 90 high D#'s is going to do what for you exactly? Instead, practice music with the same attention to detail you give your "technique" practice. It's the same 12 notes. Might as well spend your time learning how to play music that actually interests you.
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[lakejw]

I will add one more remark about your goal of wanting to play a whole song through: check out that middle section of the Arban's book - The Art of Phrasing. It's got a bunch of really nice, shorter melodies to play. Focus on getting 1 really solid each week. Or, practice sight reading 3-4 in a row. Lots of fun to be had.
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New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp

johnlakejazz.com