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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Naïve.
Just take a pint glass of warm water once a week and dump it straight down the bell about a dozen times and then blow the water out. The growth that comes out is remarkable.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:18 am Post subject: |
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VetPsychWars wrote: | Naïve.
Just take a pint glass of warm water once a week and dump it straight down the bell about a dozen times and then blow the water out. The growth that comes out is remarkable.
Tom |
Hi Tom
Ok, I'll give it a try.
Best wishes
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1409 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:50 am Post subject: |
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I just purchased a 10 year old Schilke B1. Flawless on the outside, but upon removing the tuning slide, I could see it wasn't perfectly clean.
So, I removed the slides and valves, bathed the slides and body in warm water containing a bit of dish washing detergent, then swabbed (plastic coated wire with plastic brushes on each end.).
Retrieved some green bits and pieces (some looked like salad fragments) from all tubes, including the bell tail. (I ran the snake down the bell and just barely into the 1st valve so as to not potentially scratch the valve casing wall.) The largest chunk of green was found there. Some of it pushed into 1st valve casing where I could get it, but some was pulled back into the bell tail when I withdrew the snake.
I did this several times until I saw no more foreign material.
How do I know it's really clean? The only tube I can really inspect well is the leadpipe. _________________ Craig Mitchell |
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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I just bought a Mercedes and I couldn't bear to look so I sent it off for an annual 70 dollar ultrasonic cleaning service.
Definitely feeling assured than before. _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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kandor Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 113 Location: Bremen, Germany
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: |
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It could well be that that culprit is the swab itself. I mean, while dragging any dirt out of the tuning slide, it passes by the chimney (by the way, it is much deeper in the Xeno-II than in the Xeno-I) and every time it could push something into it.
I only use a warm water pass-through after playing, while also keeping the water key open.
As for the cork, I understand it is actually meant to be greased:
to keep it more or less waterproof. _________________ Yamaha, Bach, B&S, Kuehnl & Hoyer |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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kandor wrote: | It could well be that that culprit is the swab itself. I mean, while dragging any dirt out of the tuning slide, it passes by the chimney (by the way, it is much deeper in the Xeno-II than in the Xeno-I) and every time it could push something into it.
Hi Kandor
Thanks very much. I see your point, but since I clean my teeth before I play and swab out my leadpipe and tuning slide each time, I don't think that there really should be any dirt to be dragged by the swab. I just swab, to put my instruments away with a dry lead pipe and tuning slide.
I only use a warm water pass-through after playing, while also keeping the water key open.
I understand, but presume you don't mean after each time you play.
As for the cork, I understand it is actually meant to be greased:
to keep it more or less waterproof.
I'm not sure about this. I believe that this product doubles as a grease for the corks of clarinets etc.
Take care
Lou
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_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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kandor Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 113 Location: Bremen, Germany
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Dear L.Finch,
me too I brush my teeth before playing, just in case. But I suspect that the swab finds sort of a cream/emulsion made of oil+grease leftovers, combined with some brownish brass oxidation and some condensing water. Maybe nothing biological, but I would rather keep it away from the instrument before it makes some serious crust.
About rinsing, well, every 2 or 3 playing sessions I spray warm water through the bell (upside down) with a shower "telephone", so that it flows out of the leadpipe. While pressing in turn the three valves and the two spits. Slides 1&2 secured with a rubber band. It all takes 2 minutes.
About the Selmer grease, I could be wrong but since it mentions "tuning slide" I tend to see it as a general brass player's tool. Recently I ran out of it and found the pharmacy anhydrous lanolin equally good at keeping the corks soft. _________________ Yamaha, Bach, B&S, Kuehnl & Hoyer |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: |
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kandor wrote: | Dear L.Finch,
me too I brush my teeth before playing, just in case. But I suspect that the swab finds sort of a cream/emulsion made of oil+grease leftovers, combined with some brownish brass oxidation and some condensing water. Maybe nothing biological, but I would rather keep it away from the instrument before it makes some serious crust.
About rinsing, well, every 2 or 3 playing sessions I spray warm water through the bell (upside down) with a shower "telephone", so that it flows out of the leadpipe. While pressing in turn the three valves and the two spits. Slides 1&2 secured with a rubber band. It all takes 2 minutes.
Hi kandor
Thank you very much.
About the Selmer grease, I could be wrong but since it mentions "tuning slide" I tend to see it as a general brass player's tool. Recently I ran out of it and found the pharmacy anhydrous lanolin equally good at keeping the corks soft.
I may also very well be wrong.
Rightly or wrongly, I've never greased a tuning slide cork.
Take care
Lou |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12662 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I have never run across anyone intentionally greasing cork on a trumpet. |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | I have never run across anyone intentionally greasing cork on a trumpet. |
No, I haven't either. What with swabbing out the leadpipe and tuning slide after each time I play, oiling daily and greasing the tuning slides weekly, I feel I have enough regular maintenance without also greasing corks.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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The easiest way to deal with this is just clean the trumpet regularly. Swabbing after each playing is overkill, plus, it stops you using enough water to flush out grunge when you swab, brush, snake your horns, as you feel the need to do a full clean is reduced.
And Selmer tuning slide / cork grease is for tuning slide and tenon corks on woodwind instruments! Like a clarinet...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | The easiest way to deal with this is just clean the trumpet regularly. Swabbing after each playing is overkill,
Hi Andy
To be honest, I don't think it is, but hopefully we can agree to disagree. I bought my Xeno cornet used from a reputable retailer and it turned out to have what I think are a couple of spots of red rot in the tuning slide. I nearly returned it, but rightly or wrongly, I accepted a partial refund and a written indemnity that the retailer would replace the tuning slide if the red rot progressed within three years. I am determined not to ever put this cornet away with a wet tuning slide or lead pipe, and whether it is working or it is just luck, there has been no further progression of the red rot, and the three years are now over.
plus, it stops you using enough water to flush out grunge when you swab, brush, snake your horns, as you feel the need to do a full clean is reduced.
Maybe/maybe not. In my opinion, it depends on the person. We should all be personally aware that we have only swabbed rather than fully cleaned the lead pipe and tuning slide, and that we haven't cleaned the rest of the horn at all. As far as I understand, red rot occurs mainly occurs in the lead pipe and tuning slide. I reckon in all honesty that although swabbing daily shouldn't result in you giving a full clean less often,
that since the lead pipe and tuning slide are being put away clean and dry,
that the possibility of developing red rot/red rot progressing is reduced. When I fully clean my horns, I do it thoroughly and use enough water, and this is totally independent of the interval between cleaning or that I have been swabbing in between.
And Selmer tuning slide / cork grease is for tuning slide and tenon corks on woodwind instruments! Like a clarinet...
Thanks very much for the confirmation.
cheers
Take care
Lou
Andy |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Benge.nut wrote: | Richard III wrote: | I haven't bought new in quite some time. Used horns go to the tech who replaces all those corks and other stupid stuff with whatever material makes sense. They also do the deep cleaning and valve alignment. But if you want quirky stuff coming out of your horn, my friend had a bird head drop out of his 100 year old tuba. He wondered why it always seemed a little stuffy. |
I was in sales for a short time in the 90s. A guy (homeless dude) came in with a Selmer MK VI tenor. Decent shape, good serial number but needed some work.
He processed to play it to "demo" it for us, no matter how many times we told him he didn't need to. He was trying to play, but no air was getting through the horn. His face was turning red blowing so hard, heaving in and out...but no sound.
I took it to the repair guy in house, and he dropped a leak light inside the horn. Then he called me over to have a look inside one of the tone holes.
A dead...decaying rat was looking out, big whiskers and teeth just sitting there. Must have been in there for years. Just nasty. And to think this guy had been trying to play the thing....black plague?? Ewwwww....
Needless to say, we lowered our price offer a bit. But made the deal. |
YOU WIN! |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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An occasional ultrasonic cleaning will get everything out. BTW a mouthpiece brush will work to clean those waterkey "chimneys." |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | An occasional ultrasonic cleaning will get everything out. BTW a mouthpiece brush will work to clean those waterkey "chimneys." |
Hi Ed
Thanks very much
Good idea regarding using a mouthpiece brush to clean the water key "chimneys".
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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1jazzyalex Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jun 2016 Posts: 569 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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VetPsychWars wrote: | Naïve.
Just take a pint glass of warm water once a week and dump it straight down the bell about a dozen times and then blow the water out. The growth that comes out is remarkable.
Tom |
What if you just took it in the shower with you? That could be fun. _________________ Yamaha 8335LA with Blessing 3C, 5C, Schilke 11A4A |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1409 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | An occasional ultrasonic cleaning will get everything out. BTW a mouthpiece brush will work to clean those waterkey "chimneys." |
Ed, my mouthpiece brush is not flexible. How can you get it into the "chimney" without removing the water key? _________________ Craig Mitchell |
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