1919 Collegiate

[Rebobinar]

Hi all,
I'm a new member but have been reading here for weeks. I have an 11 year old daughter who played trumpet in band in 4th grade and took private lessons. Sadly, she couldn't play last year because of a school switch and some other issues but she's back in band for middle school and I've been looking at trumpets. I thought it would be fun to look at vintage student horns in part because I prefer buying one over renting. I thought we'd spend a couple hundred dollars on something that works but isn't super fancy. But this weekend I saw a horn at a garage sale and just got it (weird story, but not super important). It was $20 and is a 1919 Holton Collegiate. My daughter loves the way it looks, and we bathed it and snaked it out. It needs some soldering work around the valves, but they spring up just fine once we cleaned and oiled them and aren't wobbly.

So, my question is this - is it worth putting the money into straightening it out (it's a little crooked) and soldering it correctly? Or should I just think it's a fun piece and buy her a more modern horn? She says it's harder to hit the notes, but she's 11, played for a year, and has a head cold, so I have no idea if this is the horn or the player. I play violin so just don't know.

I'd love your thoughts. I can't buy her an expensive horn, but want to spend enough so she isn't fighting with it. She really likes this one and wants me to fix it up for her, but wanted to run it by all of you first.

Thanks for reading!
Robin

[homebilly]

hi robin

welcome to TH

I'd say let her play it over the summer and put it though its paces
then maybe you'll have a better idea what to do.

a solder and a straighten should be quick and reasonable by a qualified tech.

what town are you in?

ron
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[Rebobinar]

Hi,
Thanks for answering!
I'm in the Seattle area. There's a Mills Music near us that says they do free estimates - not sure if it's best to go ask there or find a specialty place. I see with a google search there are quite a few.

[homebilly]

nothing like a free estimate 👍

you might even take it to a few shops to get a proper idea of price
for the job.

take your time and have fun!
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[LittleRusty]

Guys,

Is it possible that this horn could be a low pitch instrument? Any way the OP can determine visually if so?

Russ

[JetJaguar]

Rebobinar,

See if you can post a good picture of the horn here. If you're not an experienced photographer, best to put the horn on a white sheet or blanket and set the camera to auto everything. try flash on and flash off.
_________________
1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com

[Rebobinar]

Thanks all!
I took a few pictures on a white blanket. Please let me know if these work.



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[JetJaguar]

I think the serial is 473787, and the date is 1969. I don't think they had the T602 in 1919. And the horn doesnt look from that era. Good news is you have a good horn there.
_________________
1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com

[Rebobinar]

Ah, I think I left off a digit as I was looking up the serial numbers. I feel better about 1969 as far as restoring it goes. Thank you!

[thehedge]

You can find a nice history of trumpets and cornets at http://www.trumpet-history.com/Trumpet%20Timeline.htm which has more details of the T602 and its lineage towards the bottom of the story.

[Rebobinar]

The picture of the 1968 T602 looks just like mine! (except straighter, and with its pinky ring). This is all so helpful. I'm a writer and a story person so I really love knowing the background (clearly not a numbers person if I can't even see all the digits on the serial number.)

So, it really should be able to play the notes then, right?

Now that I have the valves working I'll take it in for an estimate. She also thinks her mouthpiece was different and easier for her on the Yamaha, but she also notes that it could be that she was smaller, not that the mouthpiece was bigger. (This is a standard Bach 7c mouthpiece.)

[Steve Sperry]

If your in the Seattle area, check out Oberloh music. I think the are still in the north Seattle area. They do some awesome restoration work.
_________________
trumpetdork
Benge CG
Yamaha6345HG
Olds Clark Terry Bb
Schilke E3L
Bach 229 25H
Kanstul cct920s
Kanstul 1525 flugel
Reeves' 43 m/s
Haefner 1HX
Stork 5p

[JetJaguar]

What sort of soldering do you believe it needs? The pictures don't disclose any gaps to my tired old eyes.
_________________
1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece

I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com

[1jazzyalex]

You're only $20 in, and unless money's reeaalllyyy tight, I'd have it gone over by a shop.
_________________
Yamaha 8335LA with Blessing 3C, 5C, Schilke 11A4A

[Rebobinar]

The soldering is needed (I think) where the valves connect to the rest of the trumpet. It's like the whole thing is sort of crooked and so the middle part where it sticks together doesn't stick anymore. I'm sure there's a far better way of putting that. I uploaded a couple more pictures to try to show what I'm talking about. The first picture shows the funny angle it's at, and the second shows that ball that should be stuck to the valves but isn't.

[Rebobinar]

The tech at Mills says $130 for a chem clean and to straighten it out. Does that seem reasonable?

[homebilly]

i personally wouldn't drop $130 for a chem clean
and straightening

i'm not sure that it even needs a chem clean

it seems that these days that is the
go to phrase. oh it needs a chem clean
or oh that could sure use an ultrasonic bath ....

as i said earlier
play it for a while before sinking cash
into it. trust me
you are in no hurry
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com

[Rebobinar]

The only hurry is the super anxious 11 year old begging me to fix up her trumpet... He thought the clean would get off the green stuff at some of the bends.

[VetPsychWars]

My no-longer local tech does the following for what he calls "playing condition":

Ultrasonic cleaning
Dent work
New springs, corks, felts
Play testing

for around $100. I disagree with the previous poster, a professional cleaning is well worth it.

The T602 is a decent horn, and worth a few dollars to get right. Since it was basically free to start with, you won't be wasting your money.

Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1

[Rebobinar]

Thanks, all.
I told them to go ahead. My Greta is anxious to play and it's really far less than I ended up paying renting last time.

I'll post an update after we get it back next week.